WEBVTT
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Momentarily. Thank
you for your patience.
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The feed for this streaming
event brought to you by-
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So electrification
on this day,
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Wednesday, October 13th, 2021.
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Commissioner, you may begin.
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Josh, would you like
to start us off, please?
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Absolutely.
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Thank you, Commissioner
Rechtschaffen, and hello, everyone.
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Thank you for your patience
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as we get booted up
here for our En Banc.
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My name is Josh Huneycutt.
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I am a senior analyst
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on the Transportation
Electrification team
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in the CPUC's Energy Division,
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and I will be emceeing today's event
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and walking everyone through
a few presentations here.
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Before we get started
with introductory remarks
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from Commissioner Rechtschaffen,
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I do want to provide a
few notes for the audience.
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So due to the coronavirus pandemic
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and the shelter-in-place order,
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we are conducting today's
business meeting online
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and by remote participation.
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The meeting is livestream
on CPU's website,
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and you can view the meeting
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at www.adminmonitor.com/ca/cpuc.
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Closed captioning is available
in English and Spanish
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through the webcast.
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You can click the green button
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to select your language of choice.
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Today's workshop is also being recorded
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and will be available at
www.cpuc.ca.gov/zev,
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Z-E-V, in the next few days.
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You can also find the
agenda and PowerPoint
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from today's discussion
at that same site.
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Lastly, we will have public comment
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at the end of today's meeting.
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If you wish to make a public comment,
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please dial into 800-857-1917
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and enter passcode 5180519#
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and press *1.
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You'll be placed into a queue,
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and the operator will take
your name and information.
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You'll be called upon to speak
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when we get to the public
comment period in today's agenda.
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And if you could, if you do
wish to make a public comment,
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please, in advance of the
public comments section,
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email Nicole Cropper,
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and that's nicole.cropper@cpuc.ca.gov
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to get on the list for public speakers.
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All right, with that, I will pass it off
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to Commissioner Rechtschaffen
for some introductory remarks.
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Commissioner?
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Thank you very much, Josh,
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and thank you all for
gathering here today.
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And again, thank you
very much for your patience.
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We had unexpected technical
glitches that fortunately
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we haven't experienced
very much during COVID,
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but, of course, saying
that, we had some today.
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I especially wanna thank
the other four Commissioners
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who joined me on the deas today.
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I wanna thank Josh and his colleagues,
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a very, very hardworking
Energy Division,
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Transportation Electrification team,
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who helped put this event together.
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Our two judges who work
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on transportation
electrification decisions,
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Judges Goldberg and Morrison.
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And I'm also very, very
grateful to the close collaboration
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that we've had over the years
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and more intensively
and productively recently
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with the California Energy Commission,
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the California Air Resources Board
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and the Governor's Office of Business
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and Economic Development, GO-Biz.
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They've been terrific partners.
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I want to in particular thank
Han Rasool from the CEC,
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who will be presenting
a little bit later on
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and staying on the deas with us.
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And I also want to thank
Yuliya Shmidt and Sean Simon,
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my excellent, wonderful advisors
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who helped put this event
together with the TE team.
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This En Banc, it's it's a
little bit different than others.
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It was noticed to the relevant
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transportation
electrification service list
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so that we're in compliance
with Bagley-Keene laws.
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We will not be making
any decisions today,
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not taking any votes,
doing any formal action.
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Rather, this is an informal meeting.
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It's not part of the
record of proceedings.
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The goal here is to provide
an opportunity, a forum,
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for all of the Commissioners with staff
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to discuss a key set of issues
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in transportation
electrification policy.
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These issues center around
the role of ratepayer investment
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in transportation
electrification infrastructure.
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I just wanna note,
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we will be taking a five minute break
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after Hannon's presentation
to stretch our legs.
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That'll be approximately
about an hour from now
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'cause I don't wanna have to have us go
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for 2 1/2 or 3 hours going
forward, so that's 5 minutes.
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Big picture here, it's a very exciting,
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a very important time in the market.
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You'll hear more from
Josh and Hannon about that.
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In California, we're
approaching one million vehicles
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in terms of ZEV sale.
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The market is accelerating.
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There are now dozens
and dozens of EV models.
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We have major manufacturers
such as GM, VW, Volvo,
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committing to going 100% electric.
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There's a stronger consensus than ever
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about the need to deal
with climate change
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and to electrify our
transportation system,
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and we have more
ambitious goals than ever
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with Governor Newsom's
executive orders last year,
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establishing goals of
all light-duty vehicles
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being ZEV by 2035
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and all medium and heavy-duty
vehicles being ZEV by 2045.
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One of the critical is,
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many people think it
is the critical element
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in making further progress,
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is having sufficient infrastructure
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to support the growing market.
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You'll hear from Hannon about the gap
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in the infrastructure we have now
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and what we'll need
to meet our state goals.
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Basically, we need more
than six times the number
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of chargers to meet our
established 2030 goals,
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more if you go to the
more ambitious goals
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that may be necessary to meet
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the Air Resources Board
Clean Transportation goal.
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So it's a very tall order.
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At the CEC, we've authorized
significant investments
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in transportation
electrification to date,
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and the utilities have been
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the biggest source of ratepayers.
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Not utilities, the ratepayers have been
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the biggest source of
funding in this state so far.
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Josh will give us more
information about what they've done,
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including our areas of focus,
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but the landscape's
changing, as we'll talk about.
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The private sector, state agencies,
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federal agencies, local governments
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are now playing
increasingly significant roles,
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and we face important questions,
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which we want to examine today.
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What's the most effective
role for ratepayer funding
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in light of these efforts?
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What should our priorities be?
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What forms should
ratepayer investments take?
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Included in that, there's
only one set of issues,
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is to what extent should utilities own
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the customer side
infrastructure, including chargers?
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So those are some of the
things we'd like to explore.
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Ultimately, of course, we
don't want the public sector.
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We don't want government to have to pay
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for a lot of this infrastructure.
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We want it to be done
by the private sector,
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but we're quite a ways from there.
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And overarching all this,
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a key issue for all
of us is affordability,
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a top priority for the
Commission more broadly.
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We had a very sobering white paper
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in En Banc earlier this
year in which we heard
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about the rate pressures
facing ratepayers going forward.
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Transportation electrification
programs contribute
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to those increased
rates, although far less
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than wildfire mitigation
costs or transition costs.
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At the same time, those
investments will lead
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to increased electric sales,
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which will potentially decrease rates.
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We don't know exactly
how to calculate that,
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but there will be downward
pressure on rates.
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But this is a critical concern for us.
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We just want one level setting point
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before I conclude and turn it to Josh.
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The focus for today is
really on the customer side
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of the meter investments,
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and Josh will have a
very good slide about that.
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For utility side of the meters,
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the legislature has
revised the rules in AB-841
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and directed that for those upgrades,
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ratepayers would bear the cost,
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and utilities should
treat those expenses
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without needing to file separate
applications for approval,
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the way they treat all other
distribution level expenses.
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We reviewed those
costs during utility GRC.
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So again, our focus will be
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on the customer side of investments.
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When we turn to the roundtable
portion of the discussion,
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we'll be focusing on
several overarching questions
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you'll see in Josh's slide,
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and they'll be up for our discussion
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about the role of the utility, timing,
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and how to prioritize funds
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and what mechanisms we should use.
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The intent here is to have
an interactive discussion.
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I'll lead the discussion.
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I'll be helped by Ed Randolph,
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our Energy Division director.
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Staff will be available
to answer questions,
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and I'll call them to
explain some things,
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including some new potential mechanisms
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for funding infrastructure.
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I'm hoping everyone
will participate freely,
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but if necessary, I may have to go
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into my law professor
mode and call on people,
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so we really need
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and want an interactive
discussion with Commissioners.
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I don't expect, or no opening
remarks are necessary,
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but before we turned to Josh
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if anyone wants to say anything,
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anyone else from the
deas, please go ahead.
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I know I can't see everybody.
Any other Commissioners?
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I don't see anyone jumping up.
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I dunno if you see anyone, Josh.
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If not, then I'll turn it to
Josh for his presentation.
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All right, thank
you, Commissioner.
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So I need to share
my screen here,
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so give me one second
while we get the tech right.
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Okay, are the slides up on the screen?
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Yes, they are.
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Okay, excellent.
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All right, so thank you, Commissioner,
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and good afternoon,
Commissioners, President Batjer,
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and members of the public.
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Very excited to have
this discussion today.
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And that was a great introduction.
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Much of what you discussed
will certainly be featured
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in the slides I'm
going to go over today.
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I'm planning to go through these slides
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and then we'll have some time leftover
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at the end of the presentation
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for a discussion and
question/answer session.
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And I do have my colleagues
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from the Transportation
Electrification team here
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and from the Energy Division
that are willing and able
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to dive deeper into some of
what we'll be presenting here.
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If there's an urgent
question, feel free to break in,
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but perhaps we can
hold questions till the end.
00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.123
Up to you all then,
of course. All right.
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So I think it'd be helpful
to begin this overview
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by reviewing our state
climate and PE goals,
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our progress towards those goals
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and opportunities for bridging the gap
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between where we are today
and the end of this decade.
00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:49.700
And I know that Hannon
is also going to present
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on the work that CEC has been doing,
00:12:52.530 --> 00:12:53.970
and obviously the CEC
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and the CPUC work very closely together,
00:12:57.070 --> 00:12:59.680
consider them colleagues
and our partners,
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and some of the modeling and analysis.
00:13:01.770 --> 00:13:05.270
And so inherently there's
gonna be some overlap here,
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but I think it's helpful
to hear it multiple times
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to drive home really how
big of a challenge this is.
00:13:13.259 --> 00:13:16.140
And on this slide, which
was prepared by the CEC,
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I think this really
provides a helpful reminder
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that anytime we think about
transportation electrification,
00:13:22.150 --> 00:13:24.210
we should really be
placing it in the context
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of our state's larger decarbonization
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and GHG reduction
goal, with the ultimate goal
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of net zero GHG emissions by 2045.
00:13:34.190 --> 00:13:36.780
To get us there, the
transportation sector is going
00:13:36.780 --> 00:13:40.270
to need to do an increasing
share of the heavy lifting
00:13:40.270 --> 00:13:42.170
given California's success to date
00:13:42.170 --> 00:13:44.133
in decarbonizing the energy sector.
00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:49.090
To put the importance
of this task in context,
00:13:49.090 --> 00:13:52.220
the transportation
sector now makes up 50%
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of California's GHG emissions,
00:13:53.690 --> 00:13:55.740
mostly in the form of tailpipe emissions
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from cars and trucks.
00:13:57.490 --> 00:13:59.990
So that means if we hope
to have any real chance
00:13:59.990 --> 00:14:03.770
of a meaningful decarbonization
of California's economy,
00:14:03.770 --> 00:14:05.710
we need to rapidly accelerate
00:14:05.710 --> 00:14:08.270
the electrification of transportation.
00:14:08.270 --> 00:14:09.670
So what targets have been set
00:14:09.670 --> 00:14:12.870
to achieve our broader
decarbonization goals here?
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As you see on the chart,
00:14:13.850 --> 00:14:15.850
we have established a number of targets
00:14:15.850 --> 00:14:18.910
that have set the course
for various regulations,
00:14:18.910 --> 00:14:21.100
funding programs, and initiatives
00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:23.690
around transportation electrification.
00:14:23.690 --> 00:14:25.500
For example, former
Governor Brown issued
00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:29.620
an executive order, which
was later codified in AB-2127,
00:14:29.620 --> 00:14:32.950
calling for five million
zero-emissions vehicles
00:14:32.950 --> 00:14:34.500
on the road by 2030,
00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:36.210
which is followed by an executive order
00:14:36.210 --> 00:14:38.590
from Governor Newsom requiring all sales
00:14:38.590 --> 00:14:42.850
of new passenger vehicles
to be zero emission by 2035
00:14:42.850 --> 00:14:45.230
and that also all operations of medium
00:14:45.230 --> 00:14:49.583
and heavy-duty vehicles are
100% zero emissions by 2045.
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:52.340
When the California Air Resources Board
00:14:52.340 --> 00:14:54.030
incorporated this executive order
00:14:54.030 --> 00:14:57.480
into its draft Mobile
Source Strategy analysis,
00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:00.240
it determined that eight
million zero-emission vehicles
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.863
could be on the road by 2030.
00:15:03.920 --> 00:15:04.940
So how far along are we
00:15:04.940 --> 00:15:07.983
towards meeting these
very ambitious targets?
00:15:09.070 --> 00:15:11.400
Well, we're making some progress.
00:15:11.400 --> 00:15:15.230
While the latest Q3 2021 data
hasn't been released just yet,
00:15:15.230 --> 00:15:18.420
we generally know
that EV sales are robust,
00:15:18.420 --> 00:15:20.780
and as of the end of Q2 2021,
00:15:20.780 --> 00:15:23.480
there are nearly one million
zero-emission vehicles
00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:26.130
on the road in California,
representing about half
00:15:26.130 --> 00:15:28.530
of all the ZEVs in the United States
00:15:28.530 --> 00:15:30.133
with many of those sales, 121,000,
00:15:30.133 --> 00:15:33.360
that is occurring in
the first half of this year.
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:37.710
So that coupled with the 75,000 public
00:15:37.710 --> 00:15:40.640
and shared EV chargers,
make up the biggest EV market
00:15:40.640 --> 00:15:43.440
and charging network
in the United States.
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.390
That said, we have a
number of challenges,
00:15:45.390 --> 00:15:47.440
including vehicle affordability
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.070
and charging infrastructure deployment,
00:15:50.070 --> 00:15:53.373
which will be a major
focus of today's discussion.
00:15:55.260 --> 00:15:56.240
Before we get to that though,
00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:59.510
I want to spend a moment
addressing vehicle affordability.
00:15:59.510 --> 00:16:01.200
I know this is a question and issue
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:02.920
that comes up quite a lot,
00:16:02.920 --> 00:16:05.630
more thinking about mass adoption
00:16:05.630 --> 00:16:07.580
and particularly equitable adoption
00:16:07.580 --> 00:16:09.280
of transportation electrification,
00:16:10.410 --> 00:16:11.750
so definitely want to acknowledge,
00:16:11.750 --> 00:16:13.820
and most early vehicles have been bought
00:16:13.820 --> 00:16:16.070
and driven by relatively
affluent households.
00:16:16.910 --> 00:16:18.490
Research from a few years ago indicated
00:16:18.490 --> 00:16:21.450
that households earning
less than $100,000 per year
00:16:21.450 --> 00:16:25.310
represent 72% of
gasoline vehicle purchases
00:16:25.310 --> 00:16:28.550
but only 44% of EV purchases.
00:16:28.550 --> 00:16:31.570
Black and Latino car buyers make 41%
00:16:31.570 --> 00:16:32.960
of gasoline vehicle purchases,
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.190
but only 12% of EV purchases.
00:16:36.190 --> 00:16:37.360
Among used vehicle buyers,
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:41.960
medium income of EV buyers
in California is 150,000 compared
00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.320
with 90,000 for gasoline vehicle buyers.
00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:47.653
So that is concerning;
00:16:48.640 --> 00:16:51.000
however, battery prices are falling fast
00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:53.380
and many analysts believe
00:16:53.380 --> 00:16:57.430
that new car cost parity
is on the near horizon,
00:16:57.430 --> 00:17:00.900
with an example here
showing that by 2023,
00:17:00.900 --> 00:17:04.910
the new car sticker price
of a 350-mile range EV
00:17:04.910 --> 00:17:07.800
will be on par with
that of a Toyota Camry.
00:17:07.800 --> 00:17:09.110
And I know this can seem surprising
00:17:09.110 --> 00:17:11.850
for those of us who
live in places dominated
00:17:11.850 --> 00:17:14.480
by flashier, higher-priced EVs,
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.550
but many lower cost models
are already on the market,
00:17:18.550 --> 00:17:19.650
and we're seeing a robust
00:17:19.650 --> 00:17:21.803
youth EV ecosystem develop as well.
00:17:22.790 --> 00:17:24.720
In addition, we have
many programs in California
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.290
that are offering purchase
or trade incentives
00:17:27.290 --> 00:17:28.610
for low-income EV buyers
00:17:28.610 --> 00:17:31.790
such as the Bay Area Air
Quality Management District's
00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:37.680
Clean Cars 4 All programs,
which offers up to $9,500
00:17:37.710 --> 00:17:41.100
to spend on an EV for
those two, trade-in or vehicle.
00:17:41.100 --> 00:17:44.260
And then CARB's ever-popular
Clean Vehicle Rebate program,
00:17:44.260 --> 00:17:48.150
which oversubscribed,
thankfully re-upped recently,
00:17:48.150 --> 00:17:50.570
and it offers up to
$7,000 for the purchase
00:17:50.570 --> 00:17:51.620
or lease of a new EV.
00:17:53.310 --> 00:17:56.230
Back to the primary issue at
hand for this En Banc cover,
00:17:56.230 --> 00:17:58.040
so how do we reassure the existing
00:17:58.040 --> 00:18:01.490
and potential EV drivers that
once they cash in their rebate
00:18:01.490 --> 00:18:03.890
on their cheaper-than-a-Camry EV,
00:18:03.890 --> 00:18:06.220
that, for example, they'll be
able to take a weekend trip
00:18:06.220 --> 00:18:09.390
without worrying about
where they'll be able to charge.
00:18:09.390 --> 00:18:12.400
Put it another way, the
big challenge for us ahead
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:14.960
is how we collectively demonstrate
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.560
that California stands
behind its commitment
00:18:17.560 --> 00:18:20.650
to decarbonization by
accelerating the development
00:18:20.650 --> 00:18:22.363
of a robust charging network,
00:18:23.310 --> 00:18:25.810
and that acceleration
will need to be substantial.
00:18:26.690 --> 00:18:28.990
I would say this might be
the most important figure
00:18:28.990 --> 00:18:32.590
to remember from this
presentation, 1.2 million,
00:18:32.590 --> 00:18:35.340
which is the amount of
public and shared chargers
00:18:35.340 --> 00:18:38.280
that the CEC anticipates
we'll need by 2030
00:18:38.280 --> 00:18:41.383
to support the state's
light-duty ZEV policies.
00:18:42.350 --> 00:18:44.730
This number is informed
by a robust modeling effort
00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:49.730
conducted primarily by the
CEC pursuant to simply bill 2127,
00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:52.950
which requires the CEC to
issue a biennial assessment
00:18:52.950 --> 00:18:55.260
at EV charging infrastructure.
00:18:55.260 --> 00:18:57.810
The report, in concert with the CPUC
00:18:57.810 --> 00:19:00.320
and CARB-examined state policy targets,
00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:03.540
vehicle adoption and technology
trends, driving behavior,
00:19:03.540 --> 00:19:05.330
electric distribution, system planning,
00:19:05.330 --> 00:19:08.973
and other factors to determine
the need for public charging.
00:19:09.810 --> 00:19:11.000
And as you can see here,
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.150
the current build-out of
charging infrastructure
00:19:13.150 --> 00:19:15.310
is really nowhere near
where we need to be
00:19:15.310 --> 00:19:18.120
to meet our state
policy targets for 2030.
00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:21.830
Even if we're assuming a
more modest five million EVs
00:19:21.830 --> 00:19:23.570
on the road by 2030,
00:19:23.570 --> 00:19:26.530
we're still an order of magnitude
off where we need to get.
00:19:26.530 --> 00:19:27.363
And keep in mind,
00:19:27.363 --> 00:19:30.253
this is just the need for the
light-duty vehicle segment.
00:19:31.420 --> 00:19:33.700
So for medium and
heavy duty electrification,
00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:37.820
which covers everything
from on-road trucks and buses
00:19:37.820 --> 00:19:39.150
to off-road mobile equipment
00:19:39.150 --> 00:19:41.970
like cargo handling and farm vehicles,
00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:46.173
CEC anticipates that we'll
need over 150,000 EV chargers.
00:19:47.310 --> 00:19:50.240
And these are a different
category than light duty chargers.
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:54.470
These cases require high power chargers
00:19:54.470 --> 00:19:57.470
capable of servicing
large, heavy equipment,
00:19:57.470 --> 00:20:00.940
so bigger tax on the distribution system
00:20:00.940 --> 00:20:02.590
when these are installed as well.
00:20:03.810 --> 00:20:06.090
Electrifying this sector
is of critical importance,
00:20:06.090 --> 00:20:08.050
not only from a
decarbonization standpoint
00:20:08.050 --> 00:20:10.090
but also from a pollution reduction
00:20:10.090 --> 00:20:12.480
and environmental justice standpoint.
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:16.150
As the CEC described
in their 2127 report,
00:20:16.150 --> 00:20:17.640
these vehicles are responsible
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:20.450
for 68% of NOx emissions in the state
00:20:20.450 --> 00:20:23.823
and 91% of diesel
particulate matter emissions.
00:20:24.730 --> 00:20:26.980
These pollutants contribute to toxic air
00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:29.290
and disproportionately
harm communities near ports,
00:20:29.290 --> 00:20:30.930
rail yards, distribution centers,
00:20:30.930 --> 00:20:33.050
and major freight quarters,
00:20:33.050 --> 00:20:35.590
and contribute to making the air quality
00:20:35.590 --> 00:20:38.670
in the South Coast region
and San Joaquin Valley
00:20:38.670 --> 00:20:40.270
some of the worst in the nation.
00:20:42.120 --> 00:20:43.920
Beyond the medium and heavy duty sector,
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:46.860
looking at fleets, commercial
vehicles more broadly,
00:20:46.860 --> 00:20:48.890
the state is setting
very aggressive targets
00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:50.890
for fleet electrification as we speak,
00:20:50.890 --> 00:20:53.300
including for companies
like Uber and Lyft,
00:20:53.300 --> 00:20:57.130
which will likely need to zero
out GHG emissions by 2030,
00:20:57.130 --> 00:20:59.040
a feat that would require a build-out
00:20:59.040 --> 00:21:01.630
of additional fast
charging infrastructure
00:21:01.630 --> 00:21:03.683
in major California urban areas.
00:21:05.060 --> 00:21:07.040
So how are we addressing
these challenges?
00:21:07.040 --> 00:21:08.130
Before we get to the progress,
00:21:08.130 --> 00:21:11.390
we at the CPUC and the
IOUs have made to date...
00:21:11.390 --> 00:21:12.610
I think it's really
important to highlight
00:21:12.610 --> 00:21:15.770
that this is a tremendously
complex issue
00:21:15.770 --> 00:21:17.690
that requires effective coordination
00:21:17.690 --> 00:21:20.160
and collaborative problem solving.
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:21.530
So as this slide,
00:21:21.530 --> 00:21:25.070
drawn from the Governor's Office
and Economic Development's
00:21:25.070 --> 00:21:28.250
ZEV Market Development
Strategy, a bit of a mouthful there,
00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:31.610
highlights the CPUC is
about one stakeholder
00:21:31.610 --> 00:21:36.197
in a diverse ecosystem
of public private actors,
00:21:36.197 --> 00:21:39.790
and our success really is
dependent on effective engagement
00:21:39.790 --> 00:21:42.260
with everyone you see on the screen,
00:21:42.260 --> 00:21:46.730
so that's the state agencies,
local regional governments,
00:21:46.730 --> 00:21:48.620
vehicle manufacturers, grid operators.
00:21:48.620 --> 00:21:50.963
It's really an all-hands-on-deck effort.
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:55.530
That said, we at the
CPUC are doing our part
00:21:55.530 --> 00:21:59.150
to accelerate the transition
to electrified transportation
00:21:59.150 --> 00:22:01.350
by deploying EV charging infrastructure
00:22:01.350 --> 00:22:03.410
to meet customer demand,
00:22:03.410 --> 00:22:05.380
planning and building the electric grid,
00:22:05.380 --> 00:22:08.750
and putting in place
interconnection processes
00:22:08.750 --> 00:22:11.363
that can safely and
efficiently accommodate EVs,
00:22:12.280 --> 00:22:15.940
designing EV rates that
allow for affordable charging
00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:19.350
while facilitating
vehicle-to-grid integration
00:22:19.350 --> 00:22:21.110
and conducting program evaluation
00:22:21.110 --> 00:22:22.790
and interagency coordination
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.900
to ensure that ratepayer investments
00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:29.093
to support ZEV are
strategically coordinated.
00:22:30.090 --> 00:22:31.680
So getting a bit more into the details
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:33.213
on what that constitutes.
00:22:34.210 --> 00:22:37.680
So as you can see, the CPU's
funded a substantial amount
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:39.907
of TE activities in the state to date,
00:22:39.907 --> 00:22:42.210
encompassing everything from efforts
00:22:42.210 --> 00:22:47.210
to electrify state park and
beaches with charging ports
00:22:47.450 --> 00:22:50.660
to large-scale port
electrification vehicle
00:22:50.660 --> 00:22:54.210
to grid integration programs
and much of what's in between.
00:22:54.210 --> 00:22:56.560
And I won't spend too much
time discussing the specifics
00:22:56.560 --> 00:22:58.250
of this program at the moment
00:22:58.250 --> 00:22:59.930
as you're likely familiar
with many of them,
00:22:59.930 --> 00:23:01.770
but we'd be happy to discuss these
00:23:01.770 --> 00:23:03.860
in a question and answer
session after the presentation
00:23:03.860 --> 00:23:06.540
if there are any programs
that you'd like information on
00:23:06.540 --> 00:23:08.270
or want to discuss.
00:23:08.270 --> 00:23:09.150
Instead, I'd like to highlight
00:23:09.150 --> 00:23:10.820
a few macro trends in our funding
00:23:10.820 --> 00:23:12.047
and give a sense of how
much rates they're funding
00:23:12.047 --> 00:23:14.560
that's going to certain segments.
00:23:14.560 --> 00:23:17.390
So with regards to
what's market segments
00:23:17.390 --> 00:23:19.290
and sectors our program is focused on,
00:23:20.140 --> 00:23:23.280
funding is currently
committed about 50/50
00:23:23.280 --> 00:23:27.690
to light duty and medium
duty/heavy duty programs.
00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:29.320
And of that funding,
00:23:29.320 --> 00:23:31.840
most of the focus of the
slide are currently active
00:23:31.840 --> 00:23:35.100
and many are in the early
stages or startup stages,
00:23:35.100 --> 00:23:38.530
so funding still remains
across the board
00:23:38.530 --> 00:23:41.093
about 80% of funding at last count.
00:23:42.450 --> 00:23:47.110
And in terms of what the
existing funding has yielded
00:23:47.110 --> 00:23:50.680
in terms of charging ports,
well, last check of the data,
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:55.680
the IOUs have energized
approximately 13,000 charging ports.
00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:57.210
So again, it's important to keep
00:23:57.210 --> 00:23:58.300
the bigger picture in mind here.
00:23:58.300 --> 00:24:00.190
So while we've energized
00:24:00.190 --> 00:24:02.653
about 13,000 ratepayer-funded ports,
00:24:05.074 --> 00:24:07.460
and there are currently
75,000 total ports energized
00:24:07.460 --> 00:24:09.010
across the state.
00:24:09.010 --> 00:24:11.780
That means we have a pretty
substantial gap in funding
00:24:11.780 --> 00:24:15.153
to get to our 1.2 million targets.
00:24:16.810 --> 00:24:19.810
So another critically important question
00:24:19.810 --> 00:24:21.860
besides the volume of ports is,
00:24:21.860 --> 00:24:24.793
where are the ports being
deployed geographically?
00:24:25.800 --> 00:24:28.670
Given the extreme wealth
and environmental inequities
00:24:28.670 --> 00:24:30.920
in our state, we, along
with the legislature,
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.120
have placed a strong focus on ensuring
00:24:33.120 --> 00:24:35.370
that ratepayer investments
benefit residents
00:24:35.370 --> 00:24:36.793
in communities of concern.
00:24:37.630 --> 00:24:40.160
So as this slide shows, our
three most recent fundings,
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:42.500
if you exclude the VGI pilot decision,
00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:44.390
have at least 50% of funding
00:24:44.390 --> 00:24:46.670
and ports committed to being deployed
00:24:46.670 --> 00:24:48.620
to serve disadvantaged communities
00:24:48.620 --> 00:24:50.350
and underserved communities.
00:24:50.350 --> 00:24:51.430
And as part of this programs,
00:24:51.430 --> 00:24:53.910
we're focusing efforts
on making sure that transit
00:24:53.910 --> 00:24:57.480
and other medium/heavy
duty use cases are electrified
00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:59.130
given the disproportionate impact
00:24:59.130 --> 00:25:03.150
that heavy vehicle use places
on disadvantaged communities.
00:25:03.150 --> 00:25:04.770
And we're also placing a strong emphasis
00:25:04.770 --> 00:25:07.150
on multiunit dwellings
to ensure that renters
00:25:07.150 --> 00:25:11.003
and apartment dwellers have
access to affordable charging.
00:25:12.820 --> 00:25:14.020
And speaking of affordable charging,
00:25:14.020 --> 00:25:16.490
I did want to end my
remarks with a brief note
00:25:16.490 --> 00:25:18.670
on something else Commissioner
Rechtschaffen touched on,
00:25:18.670 --> 00:25:21.500
and one of the major
roles that the CPUC plays
00:25:21.500 --> 00:25:23.990
in accelerating
transportation electrification,
00:25:23.990 --> 00:25:27.520
which is ensuring that customers
can charge their vehicles
00:25:27.520 --> 00:25:29.720
for less than they pay
at the gasoline pump.
00:25:31.340 --> 00:25:35.290
So currently for customers that
charge at home and off-peak,
00:25:35.290 --> 00:25:38.920
charging your EV costs about 1/3 as much
00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.320
as fueling a gas-powered vehicle.
00:25:41.320 --> 00:25:43.620
And as you can see
from the chart on the right,
00:25:43.620 --> 00:25:45.810
this is a key contributor to the fact
00:25:45.810 --> 00:25:49.000
that EVs are cheaper
to operate and maintain
00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:50.177
than internal combustion vehicles
00:25:50.177 --> 00:25:53.060
and will play a key role
in driving the affordability
00:25:53.060 --> 00:25:55.220
of EVs in the long run.
00:25:55.220 --> 00:25:57.630
More specifically,
according to this analysis
00:25:57.630 --> 00:25:58.580
that you see on the screen here,
00:25:58.580 --> 00:26:02.460
for car owners in the
lowest income quintile,
00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:05.330
savings from switching
to an EV amount to
00:26:05.330 --> 00:26:07.680
about $1,000 per household annually
00:26:09.130 --> 00:26:13.490
or 7% of that quintile's income by 2030.
00:26:13.490 --> 00:26:16.730
So that's a lot of
savings for for folks,
00:26:16.730 --> 00:26:19.510
not only better than
spectrum, but any EV drivers.
00:26:19.510 --> 00:26:21.230
And to tie this back
to the larger discussion
00:26:21.230 --> 00:26:23.900
around charging
infrastructure deployment,
00:26:23.900 --> 00:26:25.780
it will be really important to ensure
00:26:25.780 --> 00:26:27.810
that ratepayer investments in TE
00:26:27.810 --> 00:26:30.800
do not have the impact
of increasing rates
00:26:30.800 --> 00:26:33.990
to the point where these
savings are potentially offset,
00:26:33.990 --> 00:26:36.160
and I think Commissioner
Rechtschaffen also mentioned
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:38.030
that there is the chance
00:26:38.030 --> 00:26:40.880
that the TE investments that we make,
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:44.290
and electrification
transportation generally,
00:26:44.290 --> 00:26:46.230
could actually have the inverse effect,
00:26:46.230 --> 00:26:47.380
and that's something
that we'll be tracking
00:26:47.380 --> 00:26:50.200
as analysts here at the Commission
00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:54.410
to examine whether EV charging
00:26:54.410 --> 00:26:56.940
indeed may have a
downward pressure on rates.
00:26:56.940 --> 00:27:01.323
So that's an area of inquiry
and concern for us as well.
00:27:02.230 --> 00:27:05.240
All right, so with that, I
will conclude my remarks,
00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:07.650
and I will open it up to Commissioners
00:27:07.650 --> 00:27:09.677
for questions and comments.
00:27:19.089 --> 00:27:20.300
I have a couple of questions,
00:27:20.300 --> 00:27:23.133
but I wanna see if other
people have questions first.
00:27:29.460 --> 00:27:32.623
Well, I can start, Josh.
00:27:34.650 --> 00:27:37.050
Just a couple of things,
00:27:37.050 --> 00:27:39.040
and some of these are
by way of clarification.
00:27:39.040 --> 00:27:41.840
You mentioned that about 50%
00:27:41.840 --> 00:27:45.257
of our investments
been in light-duty vehicles
00:27:45.257 --> 00:27:48.803
and 50% in the medium
and heavy duty sector.
00:27:49.950 --> 00:27:54.030
I wanted to point out,
and you can confirm this,
00:27:54.030 --> 00:27:56.670
that most of the light duty sector
00:27:56.670 --> 00:27:59.300
is not on single-family residence
00:27:59.300 --> 00:28:00.443
where there's a pretty robust market,
00:28:00.443 --> 00:28:05.443
but it's been more in
the multi-family unit sector
00:28:06.220 --> 00:28:08.910
or the workplace sector for light duty,
00:28:08.910 --> 00:28:10.963
but not for individual residents.
00:28:11.830 --> 00:28:12.993
Am I right about that?
00:28:13.860 --> 00:28:14.693
Yeah, that's right.
00:28:14.693 --> 00:28:17.360
So most of the program funding
00:28:17.360 --> 00:28:20.420
is going towards public
charging infrastructure.
00:28:20.420 --> 00:28:23.100
So whether that's public you think of
00:28:23.100 --> 00:28:26.680
as in public property,
government property,
00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:29.910
or public shared charging at a workplace
00:28:29.910 --> 00:28:32.730
or at a multi-family unit
00:28:32.730 --> 00:28:35.050
that might be on private land,
00:28:35.050 --> 00:28:38.570
but it can be shared by
either residents, employees,
00:28:38.570 --> 00:28:40.573
or members of the public sometimes.
00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:46.760
And then I have a question
you may be able to answer
00:28:46.760 --> 00:28:49.210
or some of your colleagues
may be able to answer,
00:28:50.580 --> 00:28:55.580
the CEC's authorized
$1.8 billion in investment.
00:28:55.970 --> 00:28:59.760
You noted that 13,000
ports have been energized,
00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:02.040
and that's a reflection,
00:29:02.040 --> 00:29:03.770
and others have commented on the fact
00:29:03.770 --> 00:29:05.710
that a significant portion,
00:29:05.710 --> 00:29:08.400
the great majority of the utility money
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:10.973
that's been authorized
has not yet been spent.
00:29:12.107 --> 00:29:15.280
I don't know if it's 20%
or what the exact figure is.
00:29:15.280 --> 00:29:18.170
Do you or any of your
colleagues have any thoughts
00:29:18.170 --> 00:29:22.900
or any insight into why
it's taking relatively slowly
00:29:22.900 --> 00:29:25.060
for the utility programs
to get up and running
00:29:25.060 --> 00:29:29.450
or for those investments
to actually be made,
00:29:29.450 --> 00:29:30.863
the money actually spent?
00:29:32.810 --> 00:29:33.643
Yeah, definitely.
00:29:33.643 --> 00:29:36.653
I can let my colleague
Audrey speak to that.
00:29:37.890 --> 00:29:40.120
She's a bit closer to the
program implementation side.
00:29:40.120 --> 00:29:42.073
So Audrey, do you have a comment?
00:29:43.130 --> 00:29:44.110
Sure, yeah.
00:29:44.110 --> 00:29:46.100
So I think that a light duty program...
00:29:47.330 --> 00:29:48.593
The initial program
00:29:48.593 --> 00:29:51.093
that the Commission
authorized back in 2016,
00:29:52.840 --> 00:29:54.960
those are all complete
for the most part,
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:58.670
and funding has been authorized,
00:29:58.670 --> 00:30:00.940
has been spent for all of those.
00:30:00.940 --> 00:30:03.540
There are two new light duty programs
00:30:03.540 --> 00:30:06.490
that the Commission
authorized more recently,
00:30:06.490 --> 00:30:11.350
but Charge Ready 2 and Power
Your Drive 2 for SCE and SDG&E,
00:30:11.350 --> 00:30:13.650
the funds for that
haven't been spent yet
00:30:13.650 --> 00:30:15.380
just really because the utilities
00:30:15.380 --> 00:30:17.230
are still standing up those programs.
00:30:18.140 --> 00:30:20.750
So that's kind of on
the light duty side.
00:30:20.750 --> 00:30:22.690
On the medium and heavy duty side,
00:30:22.690 --> 00:30:24.800
this is a more nascent market,
00:30:24.800 --> 00:30:28.230
and so the utilities
have got authorization
00:30:28.230 --> 00:30:31.150
in either 2019 for STG&E
00:30:31.150 --> 00:30:33.920
and 2018 for the other two utilities
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:38.290
to spend money in those sectors.
00:30:38.290 --> 00:30:42.440
However, there's been some
challenges both with COVID delays
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:45.710
and really just with the
nascency of these markets
00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:47.700
with spending these funds.
00:30:47.700 --> 00:30:50.700
And so I do think it's fairly reasonable
00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:53.160
that there have been some delays there.
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:55.460
We have also required
that customers participating
00:30:55.460 --> 00:30:59.690
in those programs provide a
proof of purchase of a vehicle,
00:30:59.690 --> 00:31:02.730
and, in some cases, those
vehicles are on backorder
00:31:04.744 --> 00:31:08.540
or the customer is waiting
a bit to purchase those
00:31:08.540 --> 00:31:10.710
until they really do need
to transition their fleets over.
00:31:10.710 --> 00:31:14.020
So I think there are
some fairly logical reasons
00:31:14.020 --> 00:31:15.767
for some of those delays.
00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:22.590
Thank you. I have
one other question.
00:31:22.590 --> 00:31:26.280
I can't see the other
Commissioners on the screen,
00:31:26.280 --> 00:31:29.600
so I don't wanna hog the microphone,
00:31:29.600 --> 00:31:31.790
but let me ask this question
00:31:31.790 --> 00:31:36.200
and maybe Hannon can answer this
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:38.550
with his presentation as well.
00:31:38.550 --> 00:31:41.950
You gave a figure for
the scale of the investment
00:31:41.950 --> 00:31:45.100
by the utilities that we've authorized.
00:31:45.100 --> 00:31:49.620
Do we know the current
level of investment
00:31:49.620 --> 00:31:50.933
in the private market?
00:31:51.773 --> 00:31:52.606
Do we know, in other words,
00:31:52.606 --> 00:31:55.300
how much, compared
to what we've authorized,
00:31:55.300 --> 00:31:58.410
how much has been
contributed by the private sector?
00:31:58.410 --> 00:31:59.623
Any sense of that?
00:32:02.230 --> 00:32:07.120
That's a great question.
That's not data that we have.
00:32:07.120 --> 00:32:09.833
If you look at the figure, 13,000 ports.
00:32:11.630 --> 00:32:13.910
I think Hannon probably
has a better figure
00:32:13.910 --> 00:32:16.973
on the number of ports
that the CEC has funded.
00:32:20.294 --> 00:32:23.620
I think it's substantial and growing,
00:32:23.620 --> 00:32:26.653
but we don't have accurate
data on that at this point.
00:32:26.653 --> 00:32:28.230
I think it's a great question though.
00:32:28.230 --> 00:32:30.783
Unless somebody on my
team has a better sense of that.
00:32:36.430 --> 00:32:39.400
I do not have
a better sense of that.
00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:40.900
I will note that at least
00:32:40.900 --> 00:32:44.680
in the early days of this industry,
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:48.110
a lot of the chargers,
not all, of course,
00:32:48.110 --> 00:32:50.610
did receive some
level of public support,
00:32:50.610 --> 00:32:54.110
whether that was some federal funding,
00:32:54.110 --> 00:32:58.520
some sort of, say, funding
either from us or from the CAC.
00:32:58.520 --> 00:33:01.840
But I don't know that we
have any data on all of the ports
00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:04.763
that the public sector or
private sector have supported.
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:09.900
Okay, I'm done with questions,
00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:13.180
except that I wanna say
for my fellow Commissioners,
00:33:13.180 --> 00:33:15.590
Josh developed a great slide for me
00:33:15.590 --> 00:33:18.210
that I've used many times,
that he's gonna update,
00:33:18.210 --> 00:33:20.400
that compares the cost of charging
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.500
your electric vehicle at home
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:26.220
versus the cost of fueling
it up at the gas station.
00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:29.770
And the disparities are
probably even greater right now
00:33:29.770 --> 00:33:31.833
because gasoline prices are high.
00:33:33.070 --> 00:33:34.440
It's a very striking number
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:36.540
as illustrated in
one of the last slides,
00:33:36.540 --> 00:33:40.973
and it's a very useful
graphic that you can use.
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:44.130
Yeah, and on that note too,
00:33:44.130 --> 00:33:46.350
I'm just reversing slides here.
00:33:46.350 --> 00:33:49.130
I think there's one additional factor
00:33:49.130 --> 00:33:50.900
that's often overlooked
in EV affordability,
00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:52.553
is the total cost of ownership.
00:33:53.870 --> 00:33:55.740
EVs have significantly
fewer moving parts,
00:33:55.740 --> 00:33:59.560
you're not pumping
hydrocarbons through them
00:33:59.560 --> 00:34:02.070
that leak out and get gunked up,
00:34:02.070 --> 00:34:06.230
so the maintenance costs
are substantially lower,
00:34:06.230 --> 00:34:10.510
and so that the benefits
owners over the long term
00:34:10.510 --> 00:34:12.490
even though now the upfront price
00:34:12.490 --> 00:34:13.993
of vehicles is a bit higher.
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:21.633
I have a question,
Commissioner. It's Genevieve.
00:34:24.869 --> 00:34:28.059
Can I go ahead and ask my question?
00:34:28.059 --> 00:34:32.210
Of course,
Commissioner Shiroma.
00:34:32.210 --> 00:34:34.620
Josh has the mic. He's
the emcee at this point.
00:34:34.620 --> 00:34:38.490
Okay, so, Josh, I
think you had a slide
00:34:38.490 --> 00:34:43.120
of all the different agencies
that play a role here,
00:34:43.120 --> 00:34:44.300
all the different entities.
00:34:44.300 --> 00:34:47.650
I think I, well, managed to miss that.
00:34:47.650 --> 00:34:48.570
That one. There you go.
00:34:48.570 --> 00:34:51.070
There you go, that's it. Uh huh, yeah.
00:34:51.070 --> 00:34:53.750
So really
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:58.470
the focus is on infrastructures.
00:34:58.470 --> 00:35:01.420
I'm in the back on line.
00:35:01.420 --> 00:35:04.200
I am still grappling with,
00:35:04.200 --> 00:35:09.200
how do low-income,
middle-income individuals,
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:14.420
and families afford
that initial investment?
00:35:14.520 --> 00:35:18.367
It's one thing to buy a
used car, like $5,000,
00:35:20.414 --> 00:35:24.170
and there are used
cars available at $5,000,
00:35:24.170 --> 00:35:29.170
versus an electric
vehicle 25,000 and up.
00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:33.583
And so it's the build
it and they will come.
00:35:34.940 --> 00:35:39.830
We must have this
aspirational and real goal
00:35:39.830 --> 00:35:42.160
of five million electric vehicles
00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:44.043
on the roads by date certain,
00:35:45.560 --> 00:35:48.700
but has anyone done
00:35:48.700 --> 00:35:53.510
any cost benefits, so
using business case studies,
00:35:53.510 --> 00:35:56.643
as far as what,
00:35:58.990 --> 00:36:04.963
to frame it, will be needed
for a low-income buyer
00:36:04.963 --> 00:36:07.633
to be able to afford
an electric vehicles?
00:36:09.050 --> 00:36:12.300
And that presents a whole
nother set of issues as far as,
00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:17.300
well, how would that,
trying to frame it, be funded?
00:36:17.860 --> 00:36:20.513
But that's not the bridge
we're trying to cross here.
00:36:20.513 --> 00:36:22.160
One question really is, simply,
00:36:22.160 --> 00:36:26.993
has anyone done that basic assessment?
00:36:28.620 --> 00:36:31.127
Yeah, I think that's
a great question
00:36:31.127 --> 00:36:34.670
and a really important one
that I know many of the agencies
00:36:34.670 --> 00:36:37.360
across the state who are
more directly responsible
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:39.740
for providing vehicle
incentives are thinking about.
00:36:39.740 --> 00:36:42.963
So I mentioned the
Clean Cars 4 All program,
00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:47.610
the BAAQMD program to provide rebates,
00:36:47.610 --> 00:36:49.240
especially for lower-income customers.
00:36:49.240 --> 00:36:51.650
So I think folks are very aware of this,
00:36:51.650 --> 00:36:54.820
and I think UC Davis has
done a lot of great work on this,
00:36:54.820 --> 00:36:59.320
and there's certainly some
efforts at the legislature to...
00:37:00.530 --> 00:37:01.420
Happen to be thinking about that,
00:37:01.420 --> 00:37:06.010
I mentioned AB-21, I'm sorry, AB-841,
00:37:06.010 --> 00:37:09.980
requiring that a portion
of our investments go
00:37:09.980 --> 00:37:11.680
towards a disadvantaged community.
00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:15.070
And then we also have SB-1000,
00:37:15.070 --> 00:37:19.040
which requires an assessment
of the equity dimensions
00:37:19.040 --> 00:37:21.594
of the charging
infrastructure build-out.
00:37:21.594 --> 00:37:24.020
And I would say many of
the organizations on here
00:37:24.020 --> 00:37:25.209
probably have their own
00:37:25.209 --> 00:37:26.824
take on that as well.
Sure, okay.
00:37:26.824 --> 00:37:30.310
Infrastructure, we had voted
for this and we've done this.
00:37:30.310 --> 00:37:32.517
Infrastructure in low-income communities
00:37:32.517 --> 00:37:35.467
and disadvantaged communities,
that if you don't have a car
00:37:36.350 --> 00:37:39.000
to the avail of the infrastructure,
then where are we?
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.390
So, I mean, it's the
other half of the equation,
00:37:42.390 --> 00:37:44.906
which I know is off the
topic of today. (chuckles)
00:37:44.906 --> 00:37:45.920
No, it's super important.
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:48.143
I know that Audrey on our team,
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:51.410
she might have some information
00:37:51.410 --> 00:37:55.270
about the utilities' Low
Carbon Fuel Standard program.
00:37:55.270 --> 00:37:57.660
Audrey, did you have a note about that?
00:37:58.960 --> 00:37:59.987
Sure, yeah.
00:37:59.987 --> 00:38:02.130
I mean, I think just one point
00:38:02.130 --> 00:38:05.480
just on the vehicles part
that Josh was mentioning,
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:08.440
obviously most of the work on incentives
00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:11.500
for the vehicle itself
comes from other agencies.
00:38:11.500 --> 00:38:13.170
One area that the CPUC
00:38:13.170 --> 00:38:15.690
does have oversight
over is utilities' funding
00:38:15.690 --> 00:38:18.570
of Low Carbon Fuel
Standard credit revenue,
00:38:18.570 --> 00:38:20.450
LCFS credit revenue,
00:38:20.450 --> 00:38:24.800
and we are currently
reviewing proposals from utilities
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:26.970
to establish use easy rebates
00:38:28.876 --> 00:38:32.270
for electric vehicles and
plug-in hybrid electric vehicles.
00:38:32.270 --> 00:38:35.690
So just one component of the EV costs
00:38:35.690 --> 00:38:38.933
that we are considering right
now under our jurisdiction,
00:38:40.190 --> 00:38:42.713
but, yes, that is really
more on the vehicle side.
00:38:44.820 --> 00:38:46.963
Okay, thank you.
Thanks for the update.
00:38:48.230 --> 00:38:49.063
Absolutely.
00:38:53.894 --> 00:38:56.800
Well, Commissioner
Rechtschaffen, Josh,
00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:58.180
I can't see anybody either,
00:38:58.180 --> 00:39:01.203
so sorry if I'm interrupting here.
00:39:02.330 --> 00:39:03.690
Usually we can see each other
00:39:03.690 --> 00:39:06.000
to kinda try to not
interrupt each other,
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.803
but I just was gonna,
00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:11.880
not really have a question here
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:13.560
but just share the reflection
00:39:13.560 --> 00:39:16.520
that I know we've been all talking about
00:39:16.520 --> 00:39:20.883
and why, from my perspective,
00:39:23.410 --> 00:39:29.330
we really need to
be pretty cautious
00:39:29.330 --> 00:39:32.160
in additional funding
authorization from the utilities.
00:39:32.160 --> 00:39:36.410
I'll just say the three
reasons from my perspective.
00:39:36.410 --> 00:39:38.060
One is what you mentioned already,
00:39:38.060 --> 00:39:39.100
Commissioner Rechtschaffen,
00:39:39.100 --> 00:39:42.950
which is the legislature has
said they want the utilities
00:39:42.950 --> 00:39:47.433
to be able to rate
base behind the meter,
00:39:48.410 --> 00:39:51.630
the meter-ready infrastructure.
00:39:51.630 --> 00:39:55.210
And that's a big, big...
00:39:58.530 --> 00:40:00.300
We always hear about complaints
00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:01.930
about the interconnection process,
00:40:01.930 --> 00:40:05.670
and even if we focus solely on that,
00:40:05.670 --> 00:40:07.640
it would be a tremendous contribution
00:40:07.640 --> 00:40:11.020
to the electrification of
transportation in our state.
00:40:11.020 --> 00:40:15.393
It is a large piece and it
a large amount of money,
00:40:16.720 --> 00:40:21.313
not to mention that it's
gonna be part of the rate base.
00:40:22.390 --> 00:40:26.933
So the second issue is
that, as we've talked about,
00:40:28.060 --> 00:40:31.810
the counterintuitive reason
00:40:31.810 --> 00:40:36.330
to not put more of these
electric infrastructure costs
00:40:36.330 --> 00:40:38.550
on the electricity ratepayers.
00:40:38.550 --> 00:40:41.500
One, as we've talked about
in the affordability proceeding,
00:40:42.385 --> 00:40:44.330
electricity bills are regressive.
00:40:44.330 --> 00:40:46.550
They are a user tax,
00:40:46.550 --> 00:40:51.550
and so doesn't matter how
well we craft it within that.
00:40:52.150 --> 00:40:55.710
They are a regressive form of financing.
00:40:55.710 --> 00:40:57.907
Certainly we'd love to
see more federal funding
00:40:57.907 --> 00:41:02.400
and general funding come
in that is more progressive,
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.313
so that's one obvious reason.
00:41:06.560 --> 00:41:08.010
And then the reason
that we've all stated,
00:41:08.010 --> 00:41:11.640
which is in order to
incentivize more electrification,
00:41:11.640 --> 00:41:16.280
that fuel needs to be
cheap and affordable
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:18.130
and clean, of course.
00:41:18.130 --> 00:41:22.550
And so focusing in on ensuring
00:41:22.550 --> 00:41:26.100
that the fuel, the cost of electricity,
00:41:26.100 --> 00:41:29.610
is clean and affordable
00:41:29.610 --> 00:41:31.513
is our piece to this puzzle.
00:41:33.220 --> 00:41:34.163
And we're kind of,
00:41:35.720 --> 00:41:38.500
we're continuously
adding the obligations
00:41:38.500 --> 00:41:41.680
of financing for the vehicles,
00:41:41.680 --> 00:41:46.187
financing for the meters
side of the end user.
00:41:48.260 --> 00:41:50.560
It gets further away from what I think
00:41:50.560 --> 00:41:52.480
our core role should be here,
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:55.900
which is to keep electricity
as low as possible,
00:41:55.900 --> 00:41:59.530
as clean as we can, we
gotta meet those mandates,
00:41:59.530 --> 00:42:03.160
and in doing so,
00:42:03.160 --> 00:42:06.093
we would be making it less
regressive in and of itself.
00:42:07.200 --> 00:42:08.660
It's hard to have this dialogue
00:42:08.660 --> 00:42:10.570
without having the full spectrum
00:42:10.570 --> 00:42:12.200
of all of the programs before us
00:42:12.200 --> 00:42:14.120
and with our colleagues not here either
00:42:14.120 --> 00:42:16.750
to kind of push back on, certainly,
00:42:16.750 --> 00:42:20.213
me saying that we shouldn't
be funding some of these things.
00:42:23.712 --> 00:42:26.750
And I certainly think we can leverage
00:42:26.750 --> 00:42:29.100
and optimize this, as
we've just talked about,
00:42:29.100 --> 00:42:30.710
with Low Carbon Fuel Standard.
00:42:30.710 --> 00:42:31.880
That's a great example.
00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:33.350
We're using more money to get
00:42:33.350 --> 00:42:36.880
to a great rebate for cars incentives,
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:38.440
and the utilities are playing a role.
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:42.060
That's great. It's not
impacting the cost of electricity.
00:42:42.060 --> 00:42:44.419
It's not having a regressive impact.
00:42:44.419 --> 00:42:45.910
So it's not that utilities won't have
00:42:45.910 --> 00:42:47.470
an integrated role here,
00:42:47.470 --> 00:42:51.810
but getting the
ready-made infrastructure,
00:42:51.810 --> 00:42:53.740
particularly at the port
00:42:53.740 --> 00:42:56.403
and all the heavy duty along the way,
00:42:57.410 --> 00:42:58.610
should be the focus.
00:42:58.610 --> 00:43:01.150
And it's not a small thing.
00:43:01.150 --> 00:43:03.350
We just talked about
how we're behind there.
00:43:04.310 --> 00:43:08.143
So I appreciate this opportunity
to dialogue about this.
00:43:12.890 --> 00:43:15.700
Yeah, I think those
comments, Commissioner,
00:43:15.700 --> 00:43:19.630
I think that fits really nicely
into some of the topics
00:43:19.630 --> 00:43:24.250
for the roundtable a little
later in the event certainly.
00:43:24.250 --> 00:43:26.250
I'm not sure if anyone
wanted to chime in,
00:43:26.250 --> 00:43:27.600
and as I will note that we are,
00:43:27.600 --> 00:43:29.500
just given the technical difficulties,
00:43:31.317 --> 00:43:32.610
a bit behind on schedule.
00:43:32.610 --> 00:43:36.800
So happy to answer anymore
questions on the presentation,
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:38.493
but just wanted to let folks know
00:43:38.493 --> 00:43:39.889
that we're running a little behind.
00:43:39.889 --> 00:43:42.633
So, yeah, Commissioner Houck.
00:43:42.633 --> 00:43:44.240
I have two questions.
00:43:44.240 --> 00:43:48.180
One, I know you mentioned
there are 76,000 chargers.
00:43:48.180 --> 00:43:51.570
Is it correct that there's
also another 200,000
00:43:51.570 --> 00:43:53.600
that are planned or in process?
00:43:53.600 --> 00:43:57.560
And if so, are we coordinating
on how we're mapping those
00:43:57.560 --> 00:44:00.530
and do we know how many
of those may be located
00:44:00.530 --> 00:44:05.160
in either disadvantaged
communities or rural communities?
00:44:05.160 --> 00:44:08.520
Then the second question
was just on transparency issues.
00:44:08.520 --> 00:44:10.510
I know the CEC has a dashboard
00:44:10.510 --> 00:44:15.120
where they're publicly
showing where the costs are
00:44:15.120 --> 00:44:17.960
and how much the chargers are costing.
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:21.610
Are we looking to do
something similar for the IOUs
00:44:21.610 --> 00:44:23.650
or try and coordinate with the CEC
00:44:23.650 --> 00:44:27.140
to possibly have their costs
included on that dashboard
00:44:27.140 --> 00:44:29.740
to make sure that there's transparency
00:44:29.740 --> 00:44:32.390
and that we all know how
much being is spent on what?
00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:35.800
Yeah. Great questions.
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:38.890
So I would say that
00:44:38.890 --> 00:44:42.500
in terms of knowledge of
where the chargers are going,
00:44:42.500 --> 00:44:44.630
I can't actually speak to that.
00:44:44.630 --> 00:44:48.120
I know we do have a
queue with the utilities,
00:44:48.120 --> 00:44:53.120
and there was information
that we could get to that,
00:44:53.260 --> 00:44:55.060
but maybe I'll pass it off to Audrey.
00:44:55.060 --> 00:44:58.120
I think she might have
a bit more information
00:44:58.120 --> 00:45:00.320
that speaks directly
to your questions here.
00:45:01.850 --> 00:45:04.240
Yeah, so, I
mean, I think first on,
00:45:04.240 --> 00:45:06.293
I'll just secure the question on cost,
00:45:07.930 --> 00:45:11.960
we are speaking regularly
with our colleagues, the CEC,
00:45:11.960 --> 00:45:14.330
about trying to better compare costs
00:45:14.330 --> 00:45:15.930
'cause I think we do
realize this is something
00:45:15.930 --> 00:45:18.060
that is lacking right now.
00:45:18.060 --> 00:45:22.200
I think one of the challenges
with comparing costs
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:26.970
is really that it's not apples
to apples at this moment.
00:45:26.970 --> 00:45:29.423
The CEC tends to provide a rebate.
00:45:30.630 --> 00:45:35.190
We are looking at both utility
side and customer side costs.
00:45:35.190 --> 00:45:37.337
At least that's what
we have done to date.
00:45:37.337 --> 00:45:40.890
And so sometimes I
think within the CEC costs,
00:45:40.890 --> 00:45:43.250
it's not necessarily inclusive
00:45:43.250 --> 00:45:44.960
of some of those utility side costs
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:47.090
that would be covered
by ratepayers anyway.
00:45:47.090 --> 00:45:50.023
So I think, yes, it's something
that we're working on.
00:45:51.010 --> 00:45:54.200
I hear you that it's something
that's certainly important,
00:45:54.200 --> 00:45:56.000
but I don't know that we
have a great answer to that.
00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.420
Now we do have some internal data
00:45:58.420 --> 00:46:01.853
on per port costs in these EV programs.
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:06.170
I caution that they're not
exactly apples to apples.
00:46:06.170 --> 00:46:08.110
On the location question.
00:46:08.110 --> 00:46:10.760
I know that the CEC
has done some mapping
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:14.913
or is doing some
mapping through SP-1000.
00:46:17.080 --> 00:46:19.740
We do have some GIS maps
00:46:19.740 --> 00:46:22.040
from the utilities'
light duty deployments
00:46:22.040 --> 00:46:27.040
that show where we have
ratepayer-supported new chargers,
00:46:27.690 --> 00:46:29.790
so we have a sense of
where we're supporting them.
00:46:29.790 --> 00:46:33.920
Then there are some other
public databases, like PlugShare,
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:37.060
that give us a sense of
where all of the chargers are
00:46:37.060 --> 00:46:38.743
that are available to the public.
00:46:39.600 --> 00:46:43.220
So I wouldn't say there's
one central database,
00:46:43.220 --> 00:46:46.420
but there's quite a few, and
we can kind of get a sense
00:46:46.420 --> 00:46:49.860
of where we're
clustering these chargers.
00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:54.370
And the SP-1000 effort
that the CEC is undertaking
00:46:54.370 --> 00:46:57.460
is really looking at the question of,
00:46:57.460 --> 00:47:00.520
are we serving low-income
and disadvantaged communities
00:47:00.520 --> 00:47:02.450
with these investments?
00:47:02.450 --> 00:47:05.880
So that's something we can
certainly get back to you on
00:47:06.860 --> 00:47:09.010
once talking to our
colleagues about that
00:47:09.010 --> 00:47:11.860
or perhaps some of the
CEC can support on that.
00:47:13.670 --> 00:47:16.750
Thank you.
Also this is Sara Kamins.
00:47:16.750 --> 00:47:19.960
I'm the supervisor of the
TE team and Energy Division.
00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:22.010
One of my highest priorities has been
00:47:22.010 --> 00:47:24.220
to make our data public.
00:47:24.220 --> 00:47:27.793
I have a couple options of
how we can make that happen,
00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:32.380
so just wanted to let you
know we're on the same page.
00:47:32.380 --> 00:47:34.120
That is a top priority.
00:47:34.120 --> 00:47:36.490
We've been organizing our data to date.
00:47:36.490 --> 00:47:38.800
For the past year, we've
spent a lot of time organizing it
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:40.480
and making it ready to be made public
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:44.420
and that we just have to
figure out the right funding
00:47:44.420 --> 00:47:46.520
and other kind of
opportunities like that.
00:47:51.128 --> 00:47:51.961
Thank you, Beth.
00:47:51.961 --> 00:47:55.330
And one more resource
for stationed locations.
00:47:55.330 --> 00:47:57.210
There's a national database
00:47:57.210 --> 00:47:59.440
at the Alternative Fuels Data Center.
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:01.883
That's part of the U.S.
Department of Energy that you can,
00:48:02.930 --> 00:48:04.820
you know, that California
reports on the data
00:48:04.820 --> 00:48:06.610
to as long as you can see
00:48:06.610 --> 00:48:08.410
where charging stations are located.
00:48:12.620 --> 00:48:13.453
Okay.
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:20.320
Josh, I think we
should probably,
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:23.040
I think we should probably
move on to Hannon at this point
00:48:23.040 --> 00:48:24.803
just to stay on schedule.
00:48:26.350 --> 00:48:28.220
That's a great idea. Okay.
00:48:28.220 --> 00:48:29.700
All right, well, thanks
for your attention,
00:48:29.700 --> 00:48:33.010
and I will pass it off to Hannon Rasool
00:48:33.010 --> 00:48:34.830
who is the deputy director
00:48:34.830 --> 00:48:36.960
of the Fuels and Transportation Division
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:38.763
at the California Energy Commission.
00:48:40.160 --> 00:48:41.000
Yeah, great. Thank you.
00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:44.940
And there's already been a
lot of great conversation today.
00:48:44.940 --> 00:48:47.640
I'm hoping to answer some
of the questions we heard,
00:48:47.640 --> 00:48:50.780
but I'll stick around
for Q&A later as well.
00:48:50.780 --> 00:48:52.610
So again, my name is Hannon Rasool.
00:48:52.610 --> 00:48:53.680
I'm the deputy director
00:48:53.680 --> 00:48:56.333
of the Fuels and Transportation
Division at the CEC.
00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:00.450
The CEC is committed to
promoting a clean, affordable,
00:49:00.450 --> 00:49:03.440
and reliable energy
supply for all Californians,
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:06.570
so we make key
investments in infrastructure
00:49:06.570 --> 00:49:09.640
across a few different
segments, electric and hydrogen
00:49:09.640 --> 00:49:12.090
as well as light duty and
medium duty/heavy duty.
00:49:13.220 --> 00:49:15.346
I thought I would start my portion today
00:49:15.346 --> 00:49:16.950
talking about the bigger picture,
00:49:16.950 --> 00:49:19.277
but I think the head of all of this,
00:49:19.277 --> 00:49:21.300
and this is kind of the
cornerstone when I think about,
00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:23.030
why are we doing this?
00:49:23.030 --> 00:49:26.840
Really, transportation
electrification is a means to an end,
00:49:26.840 --> 00:49:28.510
and it is a very valuable end.
00:49:28.510 --> 00:49:31.100
We're trying to decarbonize
our state and planet
00:49:31.100 --> 00:49:32.860
to improve public health.
00:49:32.860 --> 00:49:34.370
We're trying to transform an industry
00:49:34.370 --> 00:49:37.820
that is the worst greenhouse
gas polluter in the state
00:49:37.820 --> 00:49:40.120
and the leading cause
of public health issues.
00:49:40.120 --> 00:49:41.930
Frankly, we need all hands on deck
00:49:41.930 --> 00:49:44.790
as we transition to a zero
emission transportation system
00:49:44.790 --> 00:49:47.260
and make the hand
off to the private market.
00:49:47.260 --> 00:49:49.800
I'm gonna reiterate that a
few times in my presentation.
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:52.710
The key here is to hand
it off to the private market,
00:49:52.710 --> 00:49:54.250
but we're not there yet.
00:49:54.250 --> 00:49:55.300
So I wanna repeat something
00:49:55.300 --> 00:49:57.200
we've heard a few times already today:
00:49:58.090 --> 00:50:00.930
transportation is 50% of the
greenhouse gas emissions
00:50:00.930 --> 00:50:02.350
in the state.
00:50:02.350 --> 00:50:04.430
There is no way we're gonna
meet our climate change goals
00:50:04.430 --> 00:50:06.900
unless we tackle this very aggressively.
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:09.570
It's also a leading cause
of local air pollution.
00:50:09.570 --> 00:50:11.730
This leads to negative health outcomes,
00:50:11.730 --> 00:50:14.490
especially for low-income
families and people of color.
00:50:14.490 --> 00:50:18.110
These are, in fact, equity
investments if we do them right.
00:50:18.110 --> 00:50:19.260
You've already heard a little bit today
00:50:19.260 --> 00:50:21.360
about our state goals and policies
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:24.570
and the ZEV executive order
from September of last year,
00:50:24.570 --> 00:50:26.180
so I won't repeat too much of that,
00:50:26.180 --> 00:50:27.940
but to say that these are the types
00:50:27.940 --> 00:50:30.130
of policies that are being pursued
00:50:30.130 --> 00:50:33.300
by California, the nation, and globally,
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:34.567
and the nice thing about that
00:50:34.567 --> 00:50:37.010
is the policy direction is clear.
00:50:37.010 --> 00:50:40.300
We have seen vehicle OEMs
in the private market step up
00:50:40.300 --> 00:50:41.823
to that very clear signal.
00:50:44.100 --> 00:50:46.300
But, again, we just haven't done enough,
00:50:46.300 --> 00:50:49.800
and I try to think
through, why is it so hard?
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:51.220
And there's several reasons.
00:50:51.220 --> 00:50:53.650
One, we're dealing with status quo.
00:50:53.650 --> 00:50:56.490
It is hard to change the
way people do things,
00:50:56.490 --> 00:50:58.750
and so that's something
we'll continue to work on.
00:50:58.750 --> 00:50:59.660
We'll chip away at it.
00:50:59.660 --> 00:51:01.730
But it's also because there are entities
00:51:01.730 --> 00:51:03.750
that do not want to see the transition.
00:51:03.750 --> 00:51:05.850
At a minimum, they wanna
slow down the transition
00:51:05.850 --> 00:51:07.540
away from oil and gas.
00:51:07.540 --> 00:51:10.500
And so really this is status
quo versus innovation,
00:51:10.500 --> 00:51:14.040
it's incumbent industries
versus science and data,
00:51:14.040 --> 00:51:16.630
and it is profits versus
environmental progress
00:51:16.630 --> 00:51:18.270
and environmental justice.
00:51:18.270 --> 00:51:20.410
And we see it all the time.
00:51:20.410 --> 00:51:21.660
There's messaging that the state
00:51:21.660 --> 00:51:24.100
is not ready for electrification,
00:51:24.100 --> 00:51:25.780
gas stove tops are better,
00:51:25.780 --> 00:51:27.590
and they never mention how bad that is,
00:51:27.590 --> 00:51:29.460
indoor air quality and children.
00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:32.400
We see advertising that
is anti-EV commercials
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:34.760
and we astroturfing campaigns.
00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:36.080
And so if we look at the investments,
00:51:36.080 --> 00:51:37.690
a lot of these larger players,
00:51:37.690 --> 00:51:38.900
the bulk of their investments
00:51:38.900 --> 00:51:42.393
still go to carbon intense fuels.
00:51:43.580 --> 00:51:45.890
We should appreciate the
investments they're making.
00:51:45.890 --> 00:51:50.000
And so those zero carbon
transitions, it's happening,
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:53.680
but it's really happened
because of CAKE signals,
00:51:53.680 --> 00:51:56.270
utility investments,
and public investment.
00:51:56.270 --> 00:51:58.060
And so we need to recognize
00:51:58.060 --> 00:52:00.170
that we need to keep pushing at this.
00:52:01.030 --> 00:52:02.760
The question before us really is,
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:04.860
have we directed enough state investment
00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:06.243
and utility investments
00:52:06.243 --> 00:52:08.380
that we think we
sufficiently tip the scale
00:52:08.380 --> 00:52:11.603
to meet our carbon goals in
the timeframe that is required?
00:52:12.870 --> 00:52:15.270
Now I'm very proud of what
California has done so far
00:52:15.270 --> 00:52:16.620
to start the transition,
00:52:16.620 --> 00:52:19.460
and we've seen it across
all levels of government
00:52:19.460 --> 00:52:21.223
and the public and private sector,
00:52:22.080 --> 00:52:24.010
but I'll briefly talk about
some of the actors in this
00:52:24.010 --> 00:52:25.750
from the state agency side.
00:52:25.750 --> 00:52:28.240
The California Energy
Commission focuses quite a bit
00:52:28.240 --> 00:52:31.170
on infrastructure and grid resiliency.
00:52:31.170 --> 00:52:33.870
The Air Resources Board,
related to some of the questions
00:52:33.870 --> 00:52:35.260
we heard from the Commissioners,
00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:38.020
they focus a lot on the
vehicle incentive side of it
00:52:38.020 --> 00:52:39.780
and the vehicle regulations.
00:52:39.780 --> 00:52:41.850
And, as you know, the
Public Utility Commission
00:52:41.850 --> 00:52:44.680
has been a very strong
steward of the ratepayer dollar
00:52:44.680 --> 00:52:46.970
and made smart TE investments.
00:52:46.970 --> 00:52:49.400
This includes also things
beyond just those investments,
00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:50.360
like rate design
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:53.550
and strengthening the
distribution grid at large.
00:52:53.550 --> 00:52:56.360
Also, the California State
Transportation Agency
00:52:56.360 --> 00:52:59.120
has made some good
investments in public transportation,
00:52:59.120 --> 00:53:00.200
such as bus and rail,
00:53:00.200 --> 00:53:03.440
so we can start getting people
out of vehicles, out of cars,
00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:05.570
and the Department of
General Services has put in place
00:53:05.570 --> 00:53:07.820
some really progressive
procurement policies.
00:53:09.240 --> 00:53:10.460
Next I'll speak a little bit
00:53:10.460 --> 00:53:12.460
about the Energy Commission investments.
00:53:13.390 --> 00:53:16.740
We have a budget of
about $100 million per year,
00:53:16.740 --> 00:53:18.800
and that seems
like a lot at first flush,
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:20.080
but that is spread out
00:53:20.080 --> 00:53:22.560
between electric light
duty infrastructure;
00:53:22.560 --> 00:53:24.550
electric medium duty/heavy duty;
00:53:24.550 --> 00:53:26.620
hydrogen light duty infrastructure;
00:53:26.620 --> 00:53:28.570
hydrogen medium duty/heavy duty;
00:53:28.570 --> 00:53:31.100
as well as manufacturing,
fuel production,
00:53:31.100 --> 00:53:33.090
and workforce development.
00:53:33.090 --> 00:53:36.100
And so that $100
million per year is good,
00:53:36.100 --> 00:53:39.050
but it's, frankly, not what we
need to make the transition.
00:53:40.100 --> 00:53:43.890
We also had this very
impactful ZEV package
00:53:43.890 --> 00:53:45.930
which happened over the summer.
00:53:45.930 --> 00:53:47.693
It was $3.9 billion,
00:53:48.530 --> 00:53:50.410
but I wanna dig into that a little bit.
00:53:50.410 --> 00:53:53.860
That's over three fiscal
years and goes to CARB,
00:53:53.860 --> 00:53:56.690
the Air Commission, excuse me,
00:53:56.690 --> 00:54:00.050
the California Energy
Commission, CalSTA, and GO-Biz.
00:54:00.050 --> 00:54:02.570
Only a portion of that
goes to infrastructure.
00:54:02.570 --> 00:54:05.850
Approximately 900 million
over three fiscal years
00:54:05.850 --> 00:54:08.743
will go towards ZEV infrastructure.
00:54:09.860 --> 00:54:11.820
To break that down a little bit further,
00:54:11.820 --> 00:54:16.370
415 million of that 900
million is fairly prescriptive
00:54:16.370 --> 00:54:18.060
and focused on the right thing.
00:54:18.060 --> 00:54:20.800
It focuses on heavy-duty vehicles.
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:23.707
So with the Energy Commission
doing the infrastructure
00:54:23.707 --> 00:54:26.330
and the Air Resources
Board doing the vehicles,
00:54:26.330 --> 00:54:30.020
we're gonna deploy 1,000
more zero-emission school buses,
00:54:30.020 --> 00:54:33.363
1,000 more transit buses,
and 1,000 more raised trucks.
00:54:34.219 --> 00:54:37.100
And the other part of that
approximately 900 million
00:54:37.100 --> 00:54:41.000
is 500 million to be split
between light duty and MDHD
00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:43.850
for the rest of the state for
both electric and hydrogen.
00:54:46.180 --> 00:54:47.850
So with this ZEV package,
00:54:47.850 --> 00:54:49.600
in addition to other public funding,
00:54:49.600 --> 00:54:51.910
utility funding, and
private investments,
00:54:51.910 --> 00:54:54.830
we are on a good trajectory to 2025 now,
00:54:54.830 --> 00:54:57.110
and we're setting a course for 2030.
00:54:57.110 --> 00:54:58.247
So you've already heard this,
00:54:58.247 --> 00:55:00.610
but we need 250,000 chargers
00:55:00.610 --> 00:55:03.590
and 200 hydrogen stations by 2025.
00:55:03.590 --> 00:55:06.130
We've looked at AB-2127 analysis,
00:55:06.130 --> 00:55:08.880
which shows us we need a
massive scale up beyond that
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:11.053
to get to the 2030 and 2035 goal.
00:55:12.220 --> 00:55:14.460
And we hear consistently
over and over again
00:55:14.460 --> 00:55:17.820
that our number one barrier
is a lack of infrastructure,
00:55:17.820 --> 00:55:19.740
and that is especially
true for low-income
00:55:19.740 --> 00:55:21.240
and disadvantaged communities.
00:55:22.290 --> 00:55:24.646
I'll speak a little bit about
our specific programs.
00:55:24.646 --> 00:55:27.680
CALeVIP is our flagship program focused
00:55:27.680 --> 00:55:30.130
on light duty EV infrastructure.
00:55:30.130 --> 00:55:34.940
We put forward about $4,500
in public funding per Level 2
00:55:34.940 --> 00:55:38.913
and 60,000, six zero thousand, per DCFC.
00:55:39.980 --> 00:55:42.170
We also have a similar block
grant we're about to launch
00:55:42.170 --> 00:55:44.410
for the medium duty/heavy duty side.
00:55:44.410 --> 00:55:48.240
We recently launched a
solicitation focused on TNCs
00:55:48.240 --> 00:55:49.930
and other high-mileage vehicles.
00:55:49.930 --> 00:55:50.910
And then later this year,
00:55:50.910 --> 00:55:55.120
we'll deploy one focused on
MUDs, apartments, and condos
00:55:55.120 --> 00:55:57.540
and a separate one on rural communities.
00:55:57.540 --> 00:55:59.930
Going forward beyond these,
00:55:59.930 --> 00:56:02.920
we have an informed, through
a stakeholder input process,
00:56:02.920 --> 00:56:04.870
our CTP Investment Plan.
00:56:04.870 --> 00:56:06.430
But we know we're gonna continue
00:56:06.430 --> 00:56:09.710
to focus a large portion
on low income and DAC.
00:56:09.710 --> 00:56:12.640
We have a target of
50%, our investments,
00:56:12.640 --> 00:56:14.227
to benefit low income and DAC.
00:56:14.227 --> 00:56:16.230
And we wanna focus on broad deployment
00:56:16.230 --> 00:56:18.880
'cause, frankly, we need
infrastructure everywhere,
00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:21.330
but we also are very much focused
00:56:21.330 --> 00:56:25.182
on those tough to reach
segments like rural, like MUD.
00:56:25.182 --> 00:56:28.260
And I think what scares me
the most about moving too slowly
00:56:28.260 --> 00:56:31.220
is that people make decisions every day
00:56:31.220 --> 00:56:32.990
about what car are
they're gonna purchase
00:56:32.990 --> 00:56:35.847
or what a fleet is gonna
purchase for MDHD,
00:56:35.847 --> 00:56:38.560
and if they don't have
access to infrastructure,
00:56:38.560 --> 00:56:40.993
they're gonna go to
an ICE or diesel vehicle.
00:56:42.570 --> 00:56:44.800
Next I'll speak a little bit
about the federal investment,
00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:47.910
something we've heard a
lot about for several months,
00:56:47.910 --> 00:56:50.370
and, frankly, it is still uncertain.
00:56:50.370 --> 00:56:52.180
If and when it is approved,
00:56:52.180 --> 00:56:55.250
this money will be split
among all 50 states.
00:56:55.250 --> 00:56:57.610
The numbers we're
seeing is about five billion
00:56:57.610 --> 00:56:59.540
for EV infrastructure
00:56:59.540 --> 00:57:02.800
and an additional 2.5
billion for alternate fuels.
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:05.210
So that could be electric,
could be something else.
00:57:05.210 --> 00:57:09.090
Even if you took that total,
7.5 billion divided by 50,
00:57:09.090 --> 00:57:11.710
that's only 150 million per state.
00:57:11.710 --> 00:57:13.400
And we know California is bigger.
00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:14.233
We're a little bit different.
00:57:14.233 --> 00:57:15.880
Let's say we get more of that money.
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:17.980
Even if we get five times that 150,
00:57:17.980 --> 00:57:21.100
that's 750 million in one-time funding.
00:57:21.100 --> 00:57:22.870
So we should be very excited about that,
00:57:22.870 --> 00:57:25.190
but I wouldn't bank on the
federal investments getting us
00:57:25.190 --> 00:57:27.170
to where we need to go.
00:57:27.170 --> 00:57:29.970
Even the Energy Commission's
long-term funding is uncertain.
00:57:29.970 --> 00:57:32.020
That 100 million I spoke about earlier,
00:57:32.020 --> 00:57:35.020
that is set to expire
at the end of 2023.
00:57:35.020 --> 00:57:37.020
We really only have a
couple more years left of that
00:57:37.020 --> 00:57:39.050
if that funding is not reauthorized.
00:57:39.050 --> 00:57:42.280
So we absolutely need
long-term and reliable funding
00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:44.090
that stakeholders can plan around.
00:57:44.090 --> 00:57:46.830
We need several funding
streams and we need certainty,
00:57:46.830 --> 00:57:48.470
and IOU investments can help create
00:57:48.470 --> 00:57:50.730
that certainty and predictability
00:57:50.730 --> 00:57:53.080
when other funding
streams may be less certain.
00:57:54.210 --> 00:57:56.910
Next I'll speak a little bit
about our analysis and reports.
00:57:56.910 --> 00:57:59.200
You've heard about
our dashboard earlier.
00:57:59.200 --> 00:58:01.030
So we have a dashboard
that we're very proud of.
00:58:01.030 --> 00:58:04.430
It has several tabs, show
a lot of different information.
00:58:04.430 --> 00:58:05.700
You can even zoom in on that
00:58:05.700 --> 00:58:09.120
to see infrastructure
deployments by county level.
00:58:09.120 --> 00:58:12.700
We're showing with
about 75,000 chargers now,
00:58:12.700 --> 00:58:15.400
that's between public
chargers and shared private,
00:58:15.400 --> 00:58:19.170
and we needed to get to
that 250,000 mark by 2025.
00:58:19.170 --> 00:58:22.230
And again, we're on a
good pace to get there
00:58:22.230 --> 00:58:24.660
with the utility funds
that have been approved,
00:58:24.660 --> 00:58:27.903
with the ZEV package,
and with our other funding,
00:58:29.650 --> 00:58:33.030
but then our AB-2127 report,
which is very data-driven,
00:58:33.030 --> 00:58:35.190
it was the Energy Commission,
other state agencies
00:58:35.190 --> 00:58:38.950
like CARB and the PUC,
national labs and academia,
00:58:38.950 --> 00:58:42.680
we're projecting we need
1.2 million chargers by 2030,
00:58:42.680 --> 00:58:45.130
and that will absolutely
include private investments too.
00:58:45.130 --> 00:58:46.517
We're not gonna do
it just with ratepayers
00:58:46.517 --> 00:58:47.653
and public dollars.
00:58:47.653 --> 00:58:49.040
So that number's even closer
00:58:49.040 --> 00:58:51.510
to two million chargers by 2035,
00:58:51.510 --> 00:58:54.740
and that does not include
the medium duty/heavy duty.
00:58:54.740 --> 00:58:57.300
According to our
Senate Bill 1000 report,
00:58:57.300 --> 00:59:00.060
which looked at access
in terms of income level,
00:59:00.060 --> 00:59:02.520
geography, and population centers,
00:59:02.520 --> 00:59:04.690
we found that we need
to deploy more chargers
00:59:04.690 --> 00:59:06.600
in low-income and rural communities,
00:59:06.600 --> 00:59:09.390
and we also found that
there is a lack of chargers
00:59:09.390 --> 00:59:10.800
in city centers.
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:11.760
We speculate that is
00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:13.970
because there's challenging
real estate dynamics,
00:59:13.970 --> 00:59:16.260
but there are very
population-dense areas
00:59:16.260 --> 00:59:19.113
that have a disproportionately
low number of chargers.
00:59:20.510 --> 00:59:23.520
I think that really brings
us to the question for today:
00:59:23.520 --> 00:59:25.130
what are the roles going forward?
00:59:25.130 --> 00:59:27.620
How do we transition away
from public and ratepayer dollars
00:59:27.620 --> 00:59:29.690
and hand it off to the private market?
00:59:29.690 --> 00:59:30.710
But I do wanna reiterate:
00:59:30.710 --> 00:59:32.560
utilities have been the
biggest source of funding
00:59:32.560 --> 00:59:34.250
for charging infrastructure
00:59:34.250 --> 00:59:37.180
and one that has provided reliability.
00:59:37.180 --> 00:59:41.410
In fact, the Atlas Public
Policy report shows that 95%
00:59:41.410 --> 00:59:43.500
of all the U.S EVSE investments
00:59:43.500 --> 00:59:46.180
in disadvantaged
communities are in California.
00:59:46.180 --> 00:59:47.900
That's in a large part
due to the direction
00:59:47.900 --> 00:59:50.013
from the PUC to make those investments.
00:59:51.600 --> 00:59:53.520
So we're not gonna answer
all these questions today,
00:59:53.520 --> 00:59:55.100
but there's a lot of
big questions about,
00:59:55.100 --> 00:59:57.040
what's the role to the utilities today
00:59:57.040 --> 00:59:58.790
and how does that evolve over time?
00:59:58.790 --> 01:00:01.140
I'll just share a few thoughts.
01:00:01.140 --> 01:00:03.410
Those questions rotate around,
01:00:03.410 --> 01:00:05.300
should the utilities
focus on all segments?
01:00:05.300 --> 01:00:07.670
Because we do need
infrastructure everywhere.
01:00:07.670 --> 01:00:10.030
And they focus solely on low-income
01:00:10.030 --> 01:00:11.490
and disadvantaged communities,
01:00:11.490 --> 01:00:13.770
focus only on multi-unit dwellings.
01:00:13.770 --> 01:00:15.710
And in that space,
should they own chargers
01:00:15.710 --> 01:00:18.980
on the customer side of the meter?
01:00:18.980 --> 01:00:19.970
Now there is an option
01:00:19.970 --> 01:00:22.260
to not have them own that infrastructure
01:00:22.260 --> 01:00:25.160
but have them fund long-term
maintenance contracts.
01:00:25.160 --> 01:00:27.890
These can be earmarked
from line items for maintenance
01:00:27.890 --> 01:00:31.760
so that a site host, like
an apartment setting,
01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:33.430
doesn't take on all that risk.
01:00:33.430 --> 01:00:35.830
Or should we just focus
on trucks and buses?
01:00:35.830 --> 01:00:38.030
We know that has all
these diesel emissions.
01:00:39.270 --> 01:00:40.103
As we look at this,
01:00:40.103 --> 01:00:41.870
we should consider
new approaches as well.
01:00:43.660 --> 01:00:45.280
We don't have to do
everything to the same,
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:47.490
the TE space that we do elsewhere,
01:00:47.490 --> 01:00:49.510
so it may not be appropriate
to rate base everything.
01:00:49.510 --> 01:00:52.990
We should look at things
like ownership versus rebates.
01:00:52.990 --> 01:00:53.823
We should look at things
01:00:53.823 --> 01:00:56.260
like performance-based
regulation or incentives.
01:00:56.260 --> 01:00:58.470
There has long been
talk about a new model
01:00:58.470 --> 01:01:01.160
that does not rely on
rate-based utility investments.
01:01:01.160 --> 01:01:04.210
PBR can be used for the
TE investments as a test case,
01:01:04.210 --> 01:01:06.740
and we'll look at incentives
and penalties for that,
01:01:06.740 --> 01:01:09.060
tied to transparent goals and metrics.
01:01:09.060 --> 01:01:11.230
We could also look at
declining incentive approaches
01:01:11.230 --> 01:01:12.730
that are measured and predictable,
01:01:12.730 --> 01:01:15.060
give the private market time to mature.
01:01:15.060 --> 01:01:17.030
Another option is to
flow some of these funds
01:01:17.030 --> 01:01:19.770
through the Energy
Commission as an administrator.
01:01:19.770 --> 01:01:21.560
We do not own any infrastructure.
01:01:21.560 --> 01:01:24.230
We offer rebates, and
we don't own any of it.
01:01:24.230 --> 01:01:26.770
Also, we don't design
or build infrastructure,
01:01:26.770 --> 01:01:28.500
so we don't have the same overhead costs
01:01:28.500 --> 01:01:30.360
or loaders as other entities.
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:32.470
This will be similar to the EPIC program
01:01:32.470 --> 01:01:34.960
where a portion of those
ratepayer funds flow through
01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:36.300
to the Energy Commission,
01:01:36.300 --> 01:01:38.720
where we can leverage
private sector funding.
01:01:38.720 --> 01:01:42.270
Again, we pay about
$4,500 per Level 2 charger
01:01:42.270 --> 01:01:43.700
for public chargers.
01:01:43.700 --> 01:01:45.990
That's only about 1/3 of the total cost.
01:01:45.990 --> 01:01:49.320
For DC fast chargers,
we pay about 60,000.
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:51.180
On this one, we cover
about 2/3 of the cost,
01:01:51.180 --> 01:01:54.023
1/3 of the leveraging private fund.
01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:57.660
So as we transition
further and further away
01:01:57.660 --> 01:02:00.190
from ratepayer dollars
and public dollars,
01:02:00.190 --> 01:02:01.670
there may be some segments we choose
01:02:01.670 --> 01:02:03.230
to stay in a little bit longer,
01:02:03.230 --> 01:02:07.530
one for equity, MUDs, rural,
and things of that nature,
01:02:07.530 --> 01:02:08.363
and so I would just say
01:02:08.363 --> 01:02:09.980
there's a few principles to consider.
01:02:09.980 --> 01:02:11.540
Or being equity-based.
01:02:11.540 --> 01:02:14.540
Is a program easy to
administer and predictable?
01:02:14.540 --> 01:02:17.007
Do we encourage and
leverage private investments?
01:02:17.007 --> 01:02:20.780
Are we being creative without
overly complicating things?
01:02:20.780 --> 01:02:21.860
Whatever is chosen,
01:02:21.860 --> 01:02:24.770
I think we need utilities
engaged as part of the solution.
01:02:24.770 --> 01:02:25.890
Utilities have the ability
01:02:25.890 --> 01:02:28.120
to be another touch point for consumers,
01:02:28.120 --> 01:02:29.430
they have local relationships,
01:02:29.430 --> 01:02:32.000
and they understand local
opportunities and challenges,
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:34.200
and they're able to
convene local stakeholders
01:02:34.200 --> 01:02:36.980
and work with regional planning efforts.
01:02:36.980 --> 01:02:38.890
Utilities can help us with deployment,
01:02:38.890 --> 01:02:40.510
and they may even have
some ownership role,
01:02:40.510 --> 01:02:42.640
but they may not have to.
01:02:42.640 --> 01:02:45.270
And they absolutely
must be part of rate design,
01:02:45.270 --> 01:02:47.437
interconnection and preparing the grid,
01:02:47.437 --> 01:02:49.543
and ensuring we're
ready for the EV load.
01:02:51.030 --> 01:02:52.750
My last few statements
here, I'll just say,
01:02:52.750 --> 01:02:54.090
we also need to be cognizant
01:02:54.090 --> 01:02:56.410
of the message we're
sending to other states.
01:02:56.410 --> 01:02:58.970
Other states look to
California for leadership,
01:02:58.970 --> 01:03:00.700
and we need scale.
01:03:00.700 --> 01:03:04.970
That scale from OEMs
and EVSPs can be attained
01:03:04.970 --> 01:03:07.140
if we have strong
leadership in California,
01:03:07.140 --> 01:03:08.567
but other states as well.
01:03:08.567 --> 01:03:11.210
And so we really wanna
be a model for other states.
01:03:11.210 --> 01:03:13.430
We're very much at an inflection point.
01:03:13.430 --> 01:03:15.170
Battery prices are coming down.
01:03:15.170 --> 01:03:17.550
They're down 90% in the last 10 years.
01:03:17.550 --> 01:03:19.960
We have more and more EV models.
01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:21.490
We just need to continue pushing here
01:03:21.490 --> 01:03:23.410
to break through the status quo,
01:03:23.410 --> 01:03:25.660
break through some
misinformation out there,
01:03:25.660 --> 01:03:27.000
and keep moving forward.
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:28.220
We cannot perpetuate
01:03:28.220 --> 01:03:31.400
the pollution health
consequences of inaction.
01:03:31.400 --> 01:03:32.610
We must see the transition through
01:03:32.610 --> 01:03:33.850
and look for opportunities
01:03:33.850 --> 01:03:36.220
to hand this off to the private market.
01:03:36.220 --> 01:03:37.650
And I'll just close by saying
01:03:37.650 --> 01:03:39.420
the Energy Commission is very committed
01:03:39.420 --> 01:03:41.170
to working with the
Public Utility Commission
01:03:41.170 --> 01:03:42.840
to accelerate the transition,
01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:45.423
and we very much wanna
be a partner in doing so.
01:03:48.070 --> 01:03:49.910
Thank you, and I'm
happy to take any questions
01:03:49.910 --> 01:03:51.143
if folks have 'em.
01:03:59.740 --> 01:04:01.440
Well, I'll start
off thanking...
01:04:02.370 --> 01:04:04.081
Okay, Commissioner Shiroma.
01:04:04.081 --> 01:04:08.820
Okay, thank you. Thank you.
01:04:08.820 --> 01:04:12.603
So, Han, you were
outlining all the dollars,
01:04:14.180 --> 01:04:15.360
this much from the budget,
01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:18.300
this much from this
program, that program.
01:04:18.300 --> 01:04:23.300
So do you have like a one
pager outlining? (chuckling)
01:04:23.740 --> 01:04:25.993
We do provide one.
We can create one, yeah.
01:04:27.650 --> 01:04:30.230
And where it
sounded like half of it
01:04:30.230 --> 01:04:34.490
was already earmarked
01:04:34.490 --> 01:04:36.400
for some very specific things.
01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:38.320
That left only the other half.
01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:42.610
Anyway, just to know what
are the resources out there.
01:04:42.610 --> 01:04:44.523
Do you have any prospects for,
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:48.440
you have your crystal ball
for next year or year after
01:04:48.440 --> 01:04:52.063
for a replenishment of
some of these funds?
01:04:53.520 --> 01:04:56.620
Yeah, I will say that we
did pursue reauthorization
01:04:56.620 --> 01:04:59.760
of Assembly Bill 8
funding this last go around.
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:02.320
We were not successful in getting that,
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:03.870
so I don't wanna get too far ahead
01:05:03.870 --> 01:05:05.820
of what we're
authorized to do this year,
01:05:05.820 --> 01:05:09.130
but, of course, we believe in
long-term consistent funding
01:05:09.130 --> 01:05:12.850
and our funding is up in the air today.
01:05:12.850 --> 01:05:14.753
Okay, all right. Thank you.
01:05:16.093 --> 01:05:17.593
Mr. Rechtschaffen.
01:05:18.940 --> 01:05:21.190
I wanted to follow
up just a little bit
01:05:21.190 --> 01:05:23.670
on the question Commissioner Houck asked
01:05:23.670 --> 01:05:28.010
and the question we get
asked very often, which is,
01:05:28.010 --> 01:05:31.100
are the costs of charging
stations that you fund
01:05:31.100 --> 01:05:33.910
or that the local air
district fund cheaper
01:05:33.910 --> 01:05:37.747
than the utility-funded
infrastructure cost?
01:05:37.747 --> 01:05:39.170
And you heard Audrey say
01:05:39.170 --> 01:05:42.180
that the apples-to-apples
comparisons are difficult,
01:05:42.180 --> 01:05:44.080
and we've been trying to do that,
01:05:44.080 --> 01:05:47.060
and we're gonna
continue to try doing that.
01:05:47.060 --> 01:05:50.960
You said you fund
Level 2 public charging
01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:52.720
at $4,500 per port,
01:05:52.720 --> 01:05:56.513
and they typically cost
three times that much.
01:05:57.674 --> 01:05:58.900
So I have a couple of questions.
01:05:58.900 --> 01:06:00.540
One is, is it your sense
01:06:00.540 --> 01:06:03.050
that the remaining funding is coming
01:06:03.050 --> 01:06:06.380
from other public sources
or from the private market?
01:06:06.380 --> 01:06:09.350
And, do you have any
sense of whether or not
01:06:11.090 --> 01:06:14.330
the charging infrastructure
you're funding is done
01:06:14.330 --> 01:06:17.900
at a more reasonable or lower level
01:06:19.002 --> 01:06:21.150
than the utility-funded infrastructure?
01:06:21.150 --> 01:06:22.340
I will point out just
01:06:23.570 --> 01:06:26.990
that we were on a joint
workshop yesterday,
01:06:26.990 --> 01:06:29.540
and Hannon was there talking
01:06:29.540 --> 01:06:32.290
about barriers to infrastructure,
and we heard someone,
01:06:32.290 --> 01:06:33.810
a woman from the city of Sacramento,
01:06:33.810 --> 01:06:38.040
say that it cost her $24,000 all in
01:06:38.040 --> 01:06:41.860
to fund some stations in
disadvantaged communities.
01:06:41.860 --> 01:06:44.630
So we know that the numbers are higher
01:06:44.630 --> 01:06:45.870
in certain market segments,
01:06:45.870 --> 01:06:48.630
but if you could shed any
light on those cost questions,
01:06:48.630 --> 01:06:49.630
that would be great.
01:06:50.620 --> 01:06:52.330
Yeah, and I would
agree with Audrey.
01:06:52.330 --> 01:06:55.290
It is tough to get a true
apples-to-apples comparison here,
01:06:55.290 --> 01:06:57.010
and there's several reasons.
01:06:57.010 --> 01:06:59.640
Partly for us, when we issue rebates,
01:06:59.640 --> 01:07:03.490
we ask for certain costs
from the private market
01:07:03.490 --> 01:07:05.420
and certain mass sharing,
01:07:05.420 --> 01:07:08.110
and so up and beyond a certain point,
01:07:08.110 --> 01:07:11.180
they're not obligated to
report on some of their costs,
01:07:11.180 --> 01:07:13.690
so we don't always
have the full picture.
01:07:13.690 --> 01:07:17.050
Also, we encourage stacking the funds
01:07:17.050 --> 01:07:17.900
where it's appropriate.
01:07:17.900 --> 01:07:19.980
We don't want people
walking away with more money
01:07:19.980 --> 01:07:21.200
than the charger costs,
01:07:21.200 --> 01:07:23.620
but if they can leverage
other funds, that's great,
01:07:23.620 --> 01:07:26.340
and so there are probably
times where there is leveraging
01:07:26.340 --> 01:07:29.530
of other non-private funds as well.
01:07:29.530 --> 01:07:30.990
We're always looking to refine that,
01:07:30.990 --> 01:07:34.010
and we add into our contracts
more and more data collection
01:07:34.010 --> 01:07:37.130
as time goes on to start
answering those questions,
01:07:37.130 --> 01:07:42.130
but I think it is very difficult
to say to an absolute,
01:07:43.090 --> 01:07:44.360
what is a better avenue?
01:07:44.360 --> 01:07:45.293
I'll say what's really important here
01:07:45.293 --> 01:07:48.230
is that we have a lot
of touch points, right?
01:07:48.230 --> 01:07:51.500
So as the Energy Commission is drafting
01:07:51.500 --> 01:07:53.800
our solicitation for MUDs and rural,
01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:55.670
I actually expect our costs will be more
01:07:55.670 --> 01:07:57.720
than 4,500 for Level 2.
01:07:57.720 --> 01:07:59.490
It's just a tougher
market to break into,
01:07:59.490 --> 01:08:01.477
and so you have to be really
nuanced when you're saying,
01:08:01.477 --> 01:08:05.740
"Is this in the public sector,
public-accessible chargers?
01:08:05.740 --> 01:08:07.230
Is it MUD? Is it rural?
01:08:07.230 --> 01:08:09.230
Is it low income? Is it DAC?"
01:08:09.230 --> 01:08:12.410
And that's gonna have an
influence on how much it costs.
01:08:12.410 --> 01:08:15.220
I think inherently because
we do not own the charger
01:08:15.220 --> 01:08:17.460
and we don't have the
same loaders and overheads,
01:08:17.460 --> 01:08:19.860
there are oftentimes
we can do it cheaper,
01:08:19.860 --> 01:08:22.240
and we're always trying
to ratchet that down,
01:08:22.240 --> 01:08:25.990
but I would be hesitant to
make a vast generalization
01:08:25.990 --> 01:08:28.163
on Energy Commission versus utilities.
01:08:30.300 --> 01:08:32.400
I may just
add to that, Cliff.
01:08:34.620 --> 01:08:37.710
Three years ago, I
hope it's come down a bit,
01:08:37.710 --> 01:08:43.810
but DGS would charge
25,000 per portal,
01:08:43.810 --> 01:08:47.280
so it was really tough.
01:08:47.280 --> 01:08:49.580
We did get some cap and trade money
01:08:49.580 --> 01:08:54.460
for the general-funded agencies
01:08:54.460 --> 01:08:58.920
to put in some of their
chargers, but, anyway,
01:08:58.920 --> 01:09:02.633
I was always amazed at the
difference in cost and pricing.
01:09:03.470 --> 01:09:05.800
And I thought we were,
01:09:05.800 --> 01:09:10.800
I think that was really based
on some of the Caltran's cost,
01:09:10.850 --> 01:09:13.043
but, at any rate, it was 25 grand.
01:09:15.920 --> 01:09:16.773
When we think about-
And it doesn't mean
01:09:16.773 --> 01:09:20.230
that they did something
terrible. (chuckling)
01:09:20.230 --> 01:09:21.950
Yeah (chuckles),
when we think about it,
01:09:21.950 --> 01:09:25.940
we're always looking for, how
do we get economies of scale,
01:09:25.940 --> 01:09:28.870
but also, how do we get
the public portion further
01:09:28.870 --> 01:09:30.000
and further down?
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.160
And so, again, we know that
number's gonna change depending
01:09:32.160 --> 01:09:34.393
on the market segments,
the vehicle segment,
01:09:35.230 --> 01:09:37.360
the population we're trying to impact,
01:09:37.360 --> 01:09:38.920
but our leverage is constantly,
01:09:38.920 --> 01:09:42.180
how do we reduce that
public dollar via rebate
01:09:42.180 --> 01:09:44.680
and then rely more and
more on the private sector?
01:09:53.680 --> 01:09:55.280
Just one
little last comment.
01:09:55.280 --> 01:09:59.400
It seems when I look at some of the,
01:09:59.400 --> 01:10:04.170
when I know the goals in 2030, 2035,
01:10:04.170 --> 01:10:09.040
both for EV adoption as
well as the infrastructure,
01:10:09.040 --> 01:10:11.253
gosh, it's just it's a little daunting.
01:10:12.740 --> 01:10:15.430
It feels like we're almost
frighteningly behind,
01:10:15.430 --> 01:10:18.910
although you said that
some of the infusion recently
01:10:18.910 --> 01:10:22.930
is going to help between
now and 2023, I think you said.
01:10:22.930 --> 01:10:28.933
But to meet the 2030
target of 80 million ZEV,
01:10:31.740 --> 01:10:35.170
which CARB estimates we'll
need to meet our 2035 goal,
01:10:35.170 --> 01:10:39.790
we will need to add actually
750,000 ZEVs per year
01:10:39.790 --> 01:10:41.470
for the rest of this decade.
01:10:41.470 --> 01:10:43.750
And it'd be good to have the lineup
01:10:44.691 --> 01:10:46.191
in that same discussion prompt
01:10:52.054 --> 01:10:53.760
what the infrastructure has to be
01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:56.130
'cause we're not gonna get the ZEVs,
01:10:56.130 --> 01:10:57.940
as the studies have all shown,
01:10:57.940 --> 01:10:59.750
if we don't have the infrastructure
01:11:00.700 --> 01:11:05.700
and the folks obviously
interested in infrastructure,
01:11:07.360 --> 01:11:08.813
and then, of course,
01:11:10.240 --> 01:11:12.690
making sure that they have radius,
01:11:12.690 --> 01:11:16.613
that they can go the
miles they need to go.
01:11:18.310 --> 01:11:19.370
Yeah, and I will note.
01:11:19.370 --> 01:11:22.380
They are big numbers. They
are big numbers. (chuckling)
01:11:22.380 --> 01:11:23.960
Yeah, no, they are.
They absolutely are.
01:11:23.960 --> 01:11:26.750
But on the timepiece we have started
01:11:26.750 --> 01:11:29.810
just recently working with
the Public Utility Commission,
01:11:29.810 --> 01:11:32.720
Air Resources Board, GO-Biz, and CalSTA
01:11:32.720 --> 01:11:35.300
to start building out a
Statewide infrastructure plan,
01:11:35.300 --> 01:11:37.560
and we can certainly match
those year-by-year things
01:11:37.560 --> 01:11:39.910
to the extent we're
able to look at those.
01:11:39.910 --> 01:11:40.743
But I will say this.
01:11:40.743 --> 01:11:43.030
I've been in this space
for about five years.
01:11:43.030 --> 01:11:45.237
When I first started, folks said,
01:11:45.237 --> 01:11:47.650
"There is no way you're gonna have
01:11:47.650 --> 01:11:49.310
a Class 8 electric truck."
01:11:49.310 --> 01:11:50.957
And then a couple of
years later, everyone's like,
01:11:50.957 --> 01:11:52.680
"Well, okay, you can do
it for a reasonable haul,
01:11:52.680 --> 01:11:54.320
but you can't do it for long haul."
01:11:54.320 --> 01:11:55.967
Couple of years later, so it's like,
01:11:55.967 --> 01:11:57.840
"Well, okay, we got that wrong.
01:11:57.840 --> 01:11:59.430
We can do zero-emission vehicles
01:11:59.430 --> 01:12:01.240
for pretty much every vehicle."
01:12:01.240 --> 01:12:04.520
And I also remember 10, 11 years ago
01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:06.730
when I worked more
on the renewable side,
01:12:06.730 --> 01:12:08.127
there was this conversation about,
01:12:08.127 --> 01:12:11.080
"If we went to 20% renewables,
the grid's gonna fall apart.
01:12:11.080 --> 01:12:12.210
How could you do this?"
01:12:12.210 --> 01:12:14.470
Okay, we can do that. Well, that's 50%.
01:12:14.470 --> 01:12:16.210
And I am constantly amazed
01:12:16.210 --> 01:12:18.320
when we have clear policy direction
01:12:18.320 --> 01:12:20.540
what we're able to achieve.
01:12:20.540 --> 01:12:22.810
This is the same thing to me.
01:12:22.810 --> 01:12:24.350
We have real challenges.
01:12:24.350 --> 01:12:27.500
We also have a lot of state
agencies taking this seriously
01:12:27.500 --> 01:12:28.427
and making good investments,
01:12:28.427 --> 01:12:30.280
and I think that's how we get there.
01:12:30.280 --> 01:12:31.580
That's how we bridge that.
01:12:33.430 --> 01:12:35.280
So we have to
continue the investments,
01:12:35.280 --> 01:12:36.820
we have to continue the incentives,
01:12:36.820 --> 01:12:41.820
but then the infrastructure
as well as for the EV adoption.
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:47.980
And as you said, we've
got several uncertainties
01:12:47.980 --> 01:12:49.250
within the funding stream.
01:12:49.250 --> 01:12:52.860
So that we've always been
ahead of the game in California,
01:12:52.860 --> 01:12:55.360
and let's just hope that,
gosh, we continue to be.
01:13:01.150 --> 01:13:03.520
Thank you as well
for the presentation.
01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:06.290
I just wanted to say maybe
a couple of conflicting things.
01:13:06.290 --> 01:13:10.300
One is that having more recently
been spending a lot of time
01:13:10.300 --> 01:13:14.497
on the broadband side,
and every time I hear,
01:13:14.497 --> 01:13:16.010
"We just have to incentivize this
01:13:16.010 --> 01:13:18.350
so the private market can take over,"
01:13:18.350 --> 01:13:20.790
I get a little bit of anxiety thinking
01:13:20.790 --> 01:13:24.900
about the market does
not take over places
01:13:24.900 --> 01:13:28.040
that don't have a
profitability or scale.
01:13:28.040 --> 01:13:31.281
I was in those
same jitters, Martha.
01:13:31.281 --> 01:13:33.290
I thought the same thing.
01:13:33.290 --> 01:13:35.010
Then I was thinking
about the oil companies
01:13:35.010 --> 01:13:39.003
and the gas stations too, so. (laughing)
01:13:39.003 --> 01:13:42.653
Thinking about both the telcos and like-
01:13:43.830 --> 01:13:47.980
Right, it's like just thinking
01:13:47.980 --> 01:13:52.090
that we need incentive-based
mechanisms alone,
01:13:52.090 --> 01:13:54.890
and I appreciate that you said we need
01:13:54.890 --> 01:13:57.083
to be a little more innovative.
01:14:00.110 --> 01:14:04.380
Just because maybe we
stopped allowing full capitalization
01:14:05.550 --> 01:14:07.610
in front of the meter infrastructure
01:14:07.610 --> 01:14:09.720
doesn't mean we're now full force.
01:14:09.720 --> 01:14:11.850
It means we're trying
to be less regressive
01:14:11.850 --> 01:14:13.140
and trying to keep the goal
01:14:13.140 --> 01:14:15.643
of having cheap electricity as a fuel.
01:14:17.910 --> 01:14:19.660
I know this isn't on the CEC,
01:14:19.660 --> 01:14:24.590
but this is where we need a
collective brainpower on things,
01:14:24.590 --> 01:14:26.620
including within our own authority.
01:14:26.620 --> 01:14:27.990
Of course we have...
01:14:27.990 --> 01:14:30.470
I know Commissioner
Shiroma has been working hard
01:14:30.470 --> 01:14:33.007
on some of our recent mandates on TNCs
01:14:33.007 --> 01:14:35.223
and their vehicle mile travel reduction,
01:14:36.140 --> 01:14:38.270
and that seems like a clear opportunity
01:14:38.270 --> 01:14:42.200
of putting the cost
of that infrastructure
01:14:42.200 --> 01:14:45.100
in the place where
there isn't more profit
01:14:45.100 --> 01:14:47.630
on those companies that have the ability
01:14:47.630 --> 01:14:52.060
to finance large numbers
of charging infrastructure.
01:14:52.060 --> 01:14:56.610
That's a much more
progressive way to do this,
01:14:56.610 --> 01:14:59.510
and I'm sure Commissioner
Shiroma was thinking about that.
01:15:00.827 --> 01:15:03.177
Those are the types of
innovation that we need.
01:15:04.110 --> 01:15:07.200
And I know our sister
agencies are looking constantly
01:15:07.200 --> 01:15:10.250
at the ports and their
pollution contribution,
01:15:10.250 --> 01:15:13.560
both at the local level
and the climate side,
01:15:13.560 --> 01:15:16.770
and getting some of those large,
01:15:16.770 --> 01:15:18.770
most notably companies like Amazon,
01:15:18.770 --> 01:15:20.610
that have a tremendous ability
01:15:20.610 --> 01:15:22.940
to finance charging infrastructure.
01:15:22.940 --> 01:15:24.640
And where's the obligation there?
01:15:24.640 --> 01:15:29.640
In particular, we as an
agency cannot directly do that,
01:15:31.160 --> 01:15:33.830
but we need that partnership.
01:15:33.830 --> 01:15:35.500
We would have the obligation
01:15:35.500 --> 01:15:38.720
to make sure the
utilities are ready to go
01:15:38.720 --> 01:15:40.170
for that infrastructure,
01:15:40.170 --> 01:15:42.710
and that's not a small
piece of the puzzle,
01:15:42.710 --> 01:15:47.340
but that's the kind of
more progressive financing
01:15:47.340 --> 01:15:48.810
that I think we should be shooting for,
01:15:48.810 --> 01:15:53.320
is getting those corporations
01:15:53.320 --> 01:15:56.149
that we know made more
money during COVID.
01:15:56.149 --> 01:15:57.610
(chuckling) We know.
01:15:57.610 --> 01:16:00.910
They're plush as we were fortunate
01:16:00.910 --> 01:16:03.580
given our general fund mechanism
01:16:03.580 --> 01:16:06.820
to be beneficiaries of
that as a whole in the state.
01:16:06.820 --> 01:16:10.520
And it's not to put it on you here,
01:16:10.520 --> 01:16:12.820
that the CEC has to figure this out,
01:16:12.820 --> 01:16:15.250
but I think we need to not fall into
01:16:17.057 --> 01:16:18.830
that binary dynamic
01:16:18.830 --> 01:16:21.450
that we either continue
these incentives as they are
01:16:21.450 --> 01:16:25.230
or continue to allow for
rate basing as we are.
01:16:25.230 --> 01:16:27.790
We certainly shouldn't stop...
01:16:29.080 --> 01:16:31.700
We should have those
alternatives in place
01:16:31.700 --> 01:16:33.550
and not just kinda stop all funding
01:16:33.550 --> 01:16:35.470
or anything drafted liked that,
01:16:35.470 --> 01:16:38.450
but we really need to not lose focus
01:16:38.450 --> 01:16:42.990
about the imperativeness
of keeping electricity cheap
01:16:42.990 --> 01:16:45.183
and cost competitive to gasoline,
01:16:46.671 --> 01:16:48.750
and, of course, not regressive.
01:16:48.750 --> 01:16:52.780
So I appreciate the outline here
01:16:52.780 --> 01:16:54.920
and the call for innovation.
01:16:54.920 --> 01:16:57.740
And while we're doing that,
01:16:57.740 --> 01:17:00.560
what is that role for
government as a whole?
01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:01.910
Of course, the role for government
01:17:01.910 --> 01:17:04.620
across the board is to
make sure we're financing this
01:17:04.620 --> 01:17:06.490
in a less regressive way,
01:17:06.490 --> 01:17:10.080
but the other role made
the actual operation.
01:17:10.080 --> 01:17:14.583
And we see this with the
munies and with utilities.
01:17:17.120 --> 01:17:21.600
I think we should just also acknowledge
01:17:21.600 --> 01:17:24.770
that there might be a continued role
01:17:25.970 --> 01:17:28.990
for the government either indirectly
01:17:28.990 --> 01:17:33.193
through requiring the
IOUs or the munies directly.
01:17:35.240 --> 01:17:38.110
So those are little too
inconsistent thoughts there,
01:17:38.110 --> 01:17:40.450
that we need more private financing
01:17:40.450 --> 01:17:45.450
and some of the real upstream
folks playing a role here,
01:17:45.830 --> 01:17:49.650
but also retaining some protection
01:17:49.650 --> 01:17:51.300
for those vulnerable communities.
01:17:53.780 --> 01:17:55.690
Yeah. I'll briefly
respond to that.
01:17:55.690 --> 01:17:57.273
I 100% agree with you.
01:17:58.240 --> 01:18:00.420
This is not a binary decision, right?
01:18:00.420 --> 01:18:03.660
This is not everything
goes through the utilities
01:18:03.660 --> 01:18:05.357
when nothing goes through the utilities.
01:18:05.357 --> 01:18:07.560
And so your comment about obligations
01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:10.440
of these commercial
fleets is absolutely right.
01:18:10.440 --> 01:18:12.490
I think that's what the Air
Resources Board has done
01:18:12.490 --> 01:18:14.070
a very good job of, right?
01:18:14.070 --> 01:18:16.640
They put in a rule on transit buses.
01:18:16.640 --> 01:18:18.300
They put on a rule on manufacturing
01:18:18.300 --> 01:18:20.780
for these
medium-duty/heavy-duty vehicles.
01:18:20.780 --> 01:18:22.900
They're moving and
examining what the role is
01:18:22.900 --> 01:18:25.120
of procurement from those things.
01:18:25.120 --> 01:18:28.320
So I think the beauty of what
California has done, frankly,
01:18:28.320 --> 01:18:32.530
is have these really progressive
and strong regulations,
01:18:32.530 --> 01:18:33.870
and says we need to start moving to it,
01:18:33.870 --> 01:18:36.140
and here's some clear
goalposts and deadlines,
01:18:36.140 --> 01:18:37.750
but then also helping fund it
01:18:37.750 --> 01:18:40.090
because we do wanna
make the transition real,
01:18:40.090 --> 01:18:41.257
and so you need that
carrot and the stick,
01:18:41.257 --> 01:18:43.230
and so I agree with you completely.
01:18:43.230 --> 01:18:44.420
I think we need both those.
01:18:44.420 --> 01:18:47.773
We need all actors to stand
up and be part of the solution.
01:18:49.040 --> 01:18:51.100
I think when the Energy
Commission looks at it,
01:18:51.100 --> 01:18:53.630
we do look at broad
deployment, but we also look at,
01:18:53.630 --> 01:18:55.960
where can we hand it
off to the private market
01:18:55.960 --> 01:18:58.690
and how do we continue
to focus on who needs it?
01:18:58.690 --> 01:19:01.660
The rural communities,
the MUDs, low income,
01:19:01.660 --> 01:19:03.680
because part of this transition too
01:19:03.680 --> 01:19:06.010
is that it's a global transition.
01:19:06.010 --> 01:19:08.210
The vehicle manufacturers
know what's happening,
01:19:08.210 --> 01:19:09.710
they're making investments in it,
01:19:09.710 --> 01:19:12.670
and these vehicles are just
so much cheaper to operate.
01:19:12.670 --> 01:19:13.610
I don't have a car now.
01:19:13.610 --> 01:19:16.780
We downsized to one car,
so I'm on my bike most days,
01:19:16.780 --> 01:19:18.020
but I used to have a Chevy Volt,
01:19:18.020 --> 01:19:21.530
and for three-plus years, I
mean, no maintenance to it.
01:19:21.530 --> 01:19:24.320
And I'm someone who
does not buy new cars.
01:19:24.320 --> 01:19:25.670
I've leased a Volt with a newer car,
01:19:25.670 --> 01:19:28.490
but not someone who buys brand new cars,
01:19:28.490 --> 01:19:31.020
and sometimes these older
vehicles take up a good chunk
01:19:31.020 --> 01:19:33.570
of money to keep running
and making repairs to.
01:19:33.570 --> 01:19:37.050
And so I think our objective
is to get every Californian
01:19:37.050 --> 01:19:39.760
into an electric vehicle
or hydrogen vehicle
01:19:39.760 --> 01:19:42.300
because they're cheaper
to operate and they're better.
01:19:42.300 --> 01:19:45.270
And the statements I've
heard say are spot on.
01:19:45.270 --> 01:19:46.800
How do we make it so those vehicles
01:19:46.800 --> 01:19:48.420
are more affordable for folks?
01:19:48.420 --> 01:19:49.787
And I think part of that
is through the investment
01:19:49.787 --> 01:19:53.160
the Air Resources Board is
making on vehicle incentive,
01:19:53.160 --> 01:19:55.300
there's things we can do on rates,
01:19:55.300 --> 01:19:56.820
but I think you're absolutely right.
01:19:56.820 --> 01:19:58.893
This can not be borne
solely on ratepayer dollars
01:19:58.893 --> 01:20:00.480
because then we're doing it wrong
01:20:00.480 --> 01:20:03.360
or just on public dollars,
because we're doing it wrong.
01:20:03.360 --> 01:20:05.760
So I'm looking forward
to that inflection point.
01:20:09.730 --> 01:20:10.820
Okay, Commissioner Houck.
01:20:10.820 --> 01:20:12.720
I was gonna suggest
after Commissioner Houck,
01:20:12.720 --> 01:20:14.220
we take a break.
01:20:14.220 --> 01:20:16.440
We've already gotten
into a excellent discussion,
01:20:16.440 --> 01:20:19.053
which is fantastic, and
Hannon's gonna stay with us.
01:20:20.180 --> 01:20:22.850
You can rent room at the
PUC, by the way, Hannon,
01:20:22.850 --> 01:20:25.490
if you wanna spend
more time with the PUC.
01:20:25.490 --> 01:20:27.958
But why don't we take
Commissioner Houck's question,
01:20:27.958 --> 01:20:30.560
and then we'll take a five-minute break
01:20:30.560 --> 01:20:32.660
and then come back
for further discussion.
01:20:34.203 --> 01:20:37.150
Yes, I'll save my
comments for the roundtable.
01:20:37.150 --> 01:20:38.970
I just wanted to note,
01:20:38.970 --> 01:20:41.720
you've mentioned the
Statewide infrastructure plan
01:20:41.720 --> 01:20:44.730
and then a number of
things that CARB is doing,
01:20:44.730 --> 01:20:46.670
GO-Biz, and the CEC.
01:20:46.670 --> 01:20:48.810
I think it would be really helpful
01:20:48.810 --> 01:20:52.070
to possibly look at
maybe a follow on En Banc
01:20:52.070 --> 01:20:54.560
that includes all those agencies,
01:20:54.560 --> 01:20:57.140
and possibly the IOUs present
01:20:57.140 --> 01:21:00.330
just so that we as Commissioners,
01:21:00.330 --> 01:21:05.330
both here and the other
agencies and Chair Randolph,
01:21:05.410 --> 01:21:07.920
could get sort of an idea in one place
01:21:07.920 --> 01:21:09.840
of all the different
things that are happening
01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:14.430
so we could take a look at
how to most efficiently make sure
01:21:14.430 --> 01:21:16.760
that we're all moving
in the same direction,
01:21:16.760 --> 01:21:21.190
reducing public funds
and being coordinated.
01:21:21.190 --> 01:21:24.930
You also mentioned an EPIC-like program.
01:21:24.930 --> 01:21:28.440
You have a rebate program
that seems to be working
01:21:28.440 --> 01:21:32.410
and it uses less public
dollars because it's partial cost.
01:21:32.410 --> 01:21:36.350
Do you have any additional
thoughts or comments on how
01:21:37.960 --> 01:21:39.810
you think something like that could work
01:21:39.810 --> 01:21:44.200
for the non-hard-to-reach locations?
01:21:44.200 --> 01:21:46.070
'Cause I do think
there's a role for the IOUs
01:21:46.070 --> 01:21:49.060
and looking at DACs and
some of the rural investment.
01:21:49.060 --> 01:21:52.290
But for some of the other areas
01:21:52.290 --> 01:21:54.060
where you seem to be having success
01:21:54.060 --> 01:21:56.240
on getting more private investment,
01:21:56.240 --> 01:21:57.510
do you have any ideas about
01:21:57.510 --> 01:21:59.343
how a program like that could work?
01:22:01.140 --> 01:22:02.660
I don't have too
many specifics,
01:22:02.660 --> 01:22:05.650
I'm not intimately familiar
with the mechanics of EPIC,
01:22:05.650 --> 01:22:07.290
but I think more conceptually...
01:22:07.290 --> 01:22:08.123
And I agree with you.
01:22:08.123 --> 01:22:10.740
I wouldn't want to put
all the eggs in that basket
01:22:10.740 --> 01:22:13.790
'cause I do think that
utilities have a role to play,
01:22:13.790 --> 01:22:15.540
having those local touch points.
01:22:15.540 --> 01:22:18.540
They have the ability to touch
segments at the local level
01:22:18.540 --> 01:22:20.120
that we may not be able to.
01:22:20.120 --> 01:22:22.300
So my contention certainly wouldn't be
01:22:22.300 --> 01:22:24.240
that all the money should flow that way,
01:22:24.240 --> 01:22:25.760
but I think a targeted amount of that
01:22:25.760 --> 01:22:27.650
to flow into the Energy Commission
01:22:27.650 --> 01:22:30.740
and utilize programs that we
already have that are set up
01:22:30.740 --> 01:22:32.040
and still retain some oversight
01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:33.660
to the Public Utility Commission.
01:22:33.660 --> 01:22:36.070
As I understand it for
EPIC, they submit, I think,
01:22:36.070 --> 01:22:38.760
either once a year,
maybe every other year,
01:22:38.760 --> 01:22:41.540
their EPIC plan to the PUC,
01:22:41.540 --> 01:22:44.020
and then there's a process for that too.
01:22:44.020 --> 01:22:46.470
So I wouldn't wanna
process this to death,
01:22:46.470 --> 01:22:49.930
but I would still want to ensure
that the PUC has oversight
01:22:49.930 --> 01:22:52.350
to a reasonable degree,
as you deemed so,
01:22:52.350 --> 01:22:54.300
on those ratepayer dollars as well.
01:22:54.300 --> 01:22:55.940
But I think there could be a bifurcation
01:22:55.940 --> 01:22:58.550
where you still have
strong utility engagement
01:22:58.550 --> 01:23:01.130
on some portion, and
then other portions can flow
01:23:01.130 --> 01:23:02.480
through a different avenue.
01:23:06.380 --> 01:23:08.930
Thank you, and,
Commissioner Houck,
01:23:08.930 --> 01:23:11.030
in terms of a follow-up on En Banc,
01:23:11.030 --> 01:23:14.880
I had a brief conversation
with Commissioner Monahan
01:23:14.880 --> 01:23:18.200
and Chair Randolph
about some similar ideas,
01:23:18.200 --> 01:23:21.100
so I will take that as
a voting endorsement
01:23:21.100 --> 01:23:24.140
to follow up on that idea going forward.
01:23:24.140 --> 01:23:27.830
So why don't we take a
five minute break till 2:45
01:23:27.830 --> 01:23:29.840
and then, Josh, if you could be ready.
01:23:29.840 --> 01:23:31.730
I know you have a
little bit more to present
01:23:31.730 --> 01:23:33.970
in terms of setting the
stage for the roundtable.
01:23:33.970 --> 01:23:35.990
We'll do that and then
take public comments.
01:23:35.990 --> 01:23:37.580
We'll come back at 2:45.
01:23:40.747 --> 01:23:43.690
(bright music)
01:23:43.690 --> 01:23:45.500
The feed for
this streaming event,
01:23:45.500 --> 01:23:47.850
brought to you by adminmonitor.com,
01:23:47.850 --> 01:23:49.340
will begin momentarily.
01:23:49.340 --> 01:23:52.560
Turn it over to Josh for a
little bit more background
01:23:52.560 --> 01:23:56.970
before we continue with
our roundtable discussion.
01:23:56.970 --> 01:23:57.803
Josh?
01:23:59.930 --> 01:24:01.030
Thank you, Commissioner.
01:24:01.030 --> 01:24:04.340
So I have a quick
presentation that is intended
01:24:04.340 --> 01:24:08.530
to frame the roundtable discussion
among the Commissioners
01:24:08.530 --> 01:24:10.860
on the role of ratepayer funding.
01:24:10.860 --> 01:24:13.850
So I'll attempt to
keep this fairly brief.
01:24:13.850 --> 01:24:15.450
But before we get into that discussion,
01:24:15.450 --> 01:24:16.940
I think it is important to consider
01:24:16.940 --> 01:24:20.090
what we've been directed
to do by the legislature
01:24:20.090 --> 01:24:21.880
and to identify some of
the areas of uncertainty.
01:24:21.880 --> 01:24:24.280
And I think we've had a good discussion
01:24:24.280 --> 01:24:26.200
about some of that uncertainty today,
01:24:26.200 --> 01:24:28.350
but then just wanna run
back through it real quick.
01:24:28.350 --> 01:24:30.893
So SB-350, for example,
01:24:31.860 --> 01:24:33.990
requires the CPUC to approve programs
01:24:33.990 --> 01:24:37.830
that accelerate widespread
transportation electrification
01:24:37.830 --> 01:24:40.550
if they're consistent with
particular requirements,
01:24:40.550 --> 01:24:43.230
but it doesn't specify what
constitutes market acceleration
01:24:43.230 --> 01:24:46.433
nor the extent to which we
must accelerate the market.
01:24:47.360 --> 01:24:50.360
Another major contributor of
our uncertainty in this space
01:24:50.360 --> 01:24:53.960
is the fact that other state
agencies and local agencies
01:24:53.960 --> 01:24:56.850
are also setting policies
and distributing funding
01:24:56.850 --> 01:25:01.380
with the expressed purpose
of transforming the sector.
01:25:01.380 --> 01:25:03.320
And, again, we've
talked about that today
01:25:03.320 --> 01:25:07.863
but just wanted to reemphasize
that uncertainty there.
01:25:08.840 --> 01:25:09.930
And the role of the IOU
01:25:09.930 --> 01:25:12.830
and TE market acceleration
is definitely evolving,
01:25:12.830 --> 01:25:15.200
and we've talked a little
bit about this as well,
01:25:15.200 --> 01:25:19.870
sort of where some of these
questions have been resolved,
01:25:19.870 --> 01:25:23.150
including recently with AB-841,
01:25:23.150 --> 01:25:27.150
expanding some of the cost
responsibility for upgrades
01:25:27.150 --> 01:25:30.750
to serve charging
infrastructure to the IOUs.
01:25:33.470 --> 01:25:35.990
We still have this...
So that's resolved much
01:25:35.990 --> 01:25:38.240
of the distribution side
investment question,
01:25:39.240 --> 01:25:40.940
but what reigns is really a discussion
01:25:40.940 --> 01:25:42.750
around how to fund that customer side
01:25:42.750 --> 01:25:44.523
or behind-the-meter infrastructure.
01:25:45.790 --> 01:25:48.480
And this is often referred
to as the "make ready,"
01:25:48.480 --> 01:25:50.700
which you can think of as
the customer side equipment
01:25:50.700 --> 01:25:52.940
that you need to make a site ready
01:25:52.940 --> 01:25:56.023
to install and energize an EV charger.
01:25:57.090 --> 01:26:00.910
So real quick, the
Energy Division released
01:26:00.910 --> 01:26:05.210
a draft transportational
electrification framework in 2020
01:26:05.210 --> 01:26:07.410
that proposed an
overarching strategic approach
01:26:07.410 --> 01:26:09.580
to TE planning and procurement
01:26:09.580 --> 01:26:11.680
in contrast to the current status quo
01:26:11.680 --> 01:26:14.230
of individual applications from the IOUs
01:26:14.230 --> 01:26:18.740
that then go through the
Commission authorization process.
01:26:18.740 --> 01:26:20.020
So the Commission has yet to rule
01:26:20.020 --> 01:26:22.360
on a final approach to that framework,
01:26:22.360 --> 01:26:25.490
but just a quick sampling
of some of the issues
01:26:25.490 --> 01:26:27.140
that are still outstanding
01:26:27.140 --> 01:26:29.630
that I think are relevant
to today's conversation,
01:26:29.630 --> 01:26:31.140
and some of these,
again, we've gone over,
01:26:31.140 --> 01:26:36.140
but how do we align
and time IOU TE targets
01:26:36.270 --> 01:26:38.743
with state TE targets and modeling?
01:26:39.620 --> 01:26:42.390
How do we coordinate
ratepayer TE investments
01:26:42.390 --> 01:26:43.770
with other state, regional,
01:26:43.770 --> 01:26:45.663
and local government investments?
01:26:46.530 --> 01:26:48.750
What is the extent of IOU ownership
01:26:48.750 --> 01:26:51.623
of charging infrastructure
on the customer's property?
01:26:52.540 --> 01:26:55.800
Overall levels of ratepayer
funding to authorize
01:26:55.800 --> 01:26:57.140
and different mechanisms
01:26:57.140 --> 01:26:58.387
for procuring charging infrastructure.
01:26:58.387 --> 01:27:00.480
And I appreciate Hannon for going
01:27:00.480 --> 01:27:02.940
into a couple of the options there.
01:27:02.940 --> 01:27:09.150
There's rebate programs
with declining incentives,
01:27:09.150 --> 01:27:12.890
potential opportunities
to hold reverse auctions
01:27:12.890 --> 01:27:15.693
that are based on the charging
need and given location.
01:27:16.860 --> 01:27:20.510
Hannon also mentioned the concept
01:27:20.510 --> 01:27:23.110
of funneling some of
IOU ratepayer funding
01:27:23.110 --> 01:27:27.180
to be administered through an
existing program like CALeVIP,
01:27:27.180 --> 01:27:28.710
which I think is quite interesting
01:27:28.710 --> 01:27:31.110
and a good topic for discussion here.
01:27:31.110 --> 01:27:32.880
Thanks for raising that, Hannon.
01:27:32.880 --> 01:27:33.713
And then, of course,
01:27:33.713 --> 01:27:37.740
there's the one-off IOU
TE application model
01:27:37.740 --> 01:27:39.933
that we've been using to date.
01:27:41.610 --> 01:27:44.210
So resolving these issues
really does require us
01:27:44.210 --> 01:27:46.810
to do a bit of policy prioritization
01:27:46.810 --> 01:27:50.630
and acknowledge potential trade-offs
01:27:50.630 --> 01:27:52.530
as we moved towards officially adopting
01:27:52.530 --> 01:27:54.510
a transportation
electrification framework.
01:27:54.510 --> 01:27:59.140
So many of the issues that you see here
01:27:59.140 --> 01:28:02.830
will go into a decision-making process
01:28:02.830 --> 01:28:07.140
that is necessary for us
01:28:07.140 --> 01:28:08.670
to really establish a program
01:28:08.670 --> 01:28:11.580
that gets at the policy priorities
01:28:11.580 --> 01:28:16.380
that are most important to the folks,
01:28:16.380 --> 01:28:18.080
the Commissioners here,
01:28:18.080 --> 01:28:20.780
and that align with our mandates
01:28:20.780 --> 01:28:22.713
from the legislature and the Governor.
01:28:24.500 --> 01:28:26.640
So with that, I did want to hand it over
01:28:26.640 --> 01:28:29.290
to Commissioner Rechtschaffen
01:28:29.290 --> 01:28:32.540
to lead a roundtable discussion.
01:28:32.540 --> 01:28:35.570
We have a number of topics here
01:28:37.441 --> 01:28:41.233
that are up on the
screen for consideration.
01:28:43.279 --> 01:28:44.900
This conversation
is not limited to these,
01:28:44.900 --> 01:28:46.760
and I'll let Commissioner
Rechtschaffen lead here.
01:28:46.760 --> 01:28:50.040
And I believe also Ed Randolph,
01:28:50.040 --> 01:28:54.180
Energy Division director and
deputy director at the CPUC,
01:28:54.180 --> 01:28:57.810
will also be joining in the
conversation as a co-moderator.
01:28:57.810 --> 01:29:01.000
And, yeah, with that, I'll
had it over to those folks
01:29:01.000 --> 01:29:02.450
and let the discussion begin.
01:29:04.480 --> 01:29:05.903
Thanks very much, Josh.
01:29:07.070 --> 01:29:10.600
So as you can see, we
have five broad topics.
01:29:10.600 --> 01:29:14.920
We don't have time
to get into all of them,
01:29:14.920 --> 01:29:16.250
even most of them in detail,
01:29:16.250 --> 01:29:20.400
so that's a teaser for our
next installment, so stay tuned.
01:29:20.400 --> 01:29:22.200
But I do think we should try to hit on
01:29:22.200 --> 01:29:26.680
at least two or three
of the important ones
01:29:26.680 --> 01:29:29.410
where Commissioners
probably have some thoughts.
01:29:29.410 --> 01:29:33.620
And I wanna start with
the first one, which is,
01:29:33.620 --> 01:29:35.570
how do we coordinate our investments
01:29:35.570 --> 01:29:37.270
with everything else going on,
01:29:37.270 --> 01:29:40.010
all other state, local,
and regional investments?
01:29:40.010 --> 01:29:42.960
We heard some of Commissioner
Guzman Aceves' perspective,
01:29:42.960 --> 01:29:45.160
a little bit from President Batjer.
01:29:45.160 --> 01:29:49.390
I really wanna open it up
to other Commissioners
01:29:51.510 --> 01:29:52.673
for their thoughts.
01:29:53.900 --> 01:29:56.873
You heard also from Hannon and the CEC.
01:29:57.950 --> 01:30:02.313
One question that, just
as thought question, is,
01:30:06.270 --> 01:30:08.720
should there be a special role
01:30:08.720 --> 01:30:11.263
or do the IOUs have a special role?
01:30:12.120 --> 01:30:13.570
Not simply just because they're a source
01:30:13.570 --> 01:30:14.870
of ratepayer funding
01:30:14.870 --> 01:30:18.040
but because they manage
the grid, they set rates,
01:30:18.040 --> 01:30:20.805
they have relationships
with electricity customers.
01:30:20.805 --> 01:30:23.810
They've been doing
a lot of things already
01:30:23.810 --> 01:30:26.710
to promote transportation
electrification.
01:30:26.710 --> 01:30:30.230
Does that make it appropriate
for them to have some kind
01:30:30.230 --> 01:30:34.570
of special role or an important role?
01:30:34.570 --> 01:30:37.010
But if we could just start off
01:30:37.010 --> 01:30:39.410
with this high-level question:
01:30:39.410 --> 01:30:42.890
how do we coordinate
how much we should invest
01:30:42.890 --> 01:30:44.960
with what everything
else that's going on?
01:30:44.960 --> 01:30:48.613
I welcome thoughts from others.
01:30:53.010 --> 01:30:53.960
Commissioner Houck.
01:30:56.130 --> 01:30:58.770
Just I agree with
Commissioner Guzman Aceves
01:30:58.770 --> 01:31:00.650
to the extent we can get more creative
01:31:00.650 --> 01:31:03.210
with financing these opportunities
01:31:03.210 --> 01:31:05.980
and get away from
using rate-based funding.
01:31:05.980 --> 01:31:09.010
I think that would be appropriate.
01:31:09.010 --> 01:31:11.060
I also think, as we heard,
01:31:11.060 --> 01:31:13.020
that we have other sister state agencies
01:31:13.020 --> 01:31:15.030
that are doing a lot
of work in this area,
01:31:15.030 --> 01:31:18.410
and the more we can coordinate
and not reinvent the wheel,
01:31:18.410 --> 01:31:20.810
I think the more efficient we can be
01:31:20.810 --> 01:31:23.410
by utilizing tools that
are already in place
01:31:23.410 --> 01:31:28.040
to further extend infrastructure.
01:31:28.040 --> 01:31:32.100
I think we should look at
rebates and private investments
01:31:32.100 --> 01:31:33.320
where that's possible.
01:31:33.320 --> 01:31:35.513
I do think the IOUs have a role,
01:31:37.040 --> 01:31:39.050
especially as the grid operator,
01:31:39.050 --> 01:31:42.430
and interconnection
issues I think has come up
01:31:42.430 --> 01:31:43.700
in a number of these programs,
01:31:43.700 --> 01:31:45.730
and they obviously have a role there.
01:31:45.730 --> 01:31:47.993
I also think disadvantaged communities,
01:31:49.040 --> 01:31:51.730
multi-unit dwellings rule,
01:31:51.730 --> 01:31:54.610
areas that may be hard to reach,
01:31:54.610 --> 01:31:58.190
the IOUs have a particular
role in those areas
01:31:58.190 --> 01:32:00.740
where there may not be as
much private investments,
01:32:00.740 --> 01:32:04.590
and we should be looking to focus
01:32:04.590 --> 01:32:08.130
to make sure that those
communities have those resources,
01:32:08.130 --> 01:32:10.640
keeping in mind Commissioner
Shiroma's comments
01:32:10.640 --> 01:32:14.960
about also needing to look
01:32:14.960 --> 01:32:17.240
at the fact that folks in
those communities need
01:32:17.240 --> 01:32:18.890
to be able to afford these vehicles
01:32:18.890 --> 01:32:20.453
to use the infrastructure.
01:32:21.730 --> 01:32:25.940
I also think that transparency
issues are important
01:32:25.940 --> 01:32:29.670
on the cost and to the
extent it was good here.
01:32:29.670 --> 01:32:32.110
Sara came in talking
about how staff is working
01:32:32.110 --> 01:32:35.940
on how to collect data and
utilize that to be transparent.
01:32:35.940 --> 01:32:37.960
But I think knowing
where the money's going
01:32:37.960 --> 01:32:40.870
and getting as close to an
apples-to-apples comparison
01:32:40.870 --> 01:32:44.510
on what these costs are is
gonna help us be creative
01:32:44.510 --> 01:32:46.810
in looking at ways to
keep those costs down
01:32:46.810 --> 01:32:50.630
and still be able to get
the infrastructure out there.
01:32:50.630 --> 01:32:53.040
And I think mapping is
gonna be very important
01:32:53.040 --> 01:32:56.730
because if we're looking at
high numbers of infrastructure,
01:32:56.730 --> 01:32:58.833
but they're all going
in the same places,
01:32:59.820 --> 01:33:01.190
that's gonna be problematic.
01:33:01.190 --> 01:33:04.960
So being coordinated with
other agencies and their programs
01:33:04.960 --> 01:33:06.610
and making sure that we're mapping
01:33:06.610 --> 01:33:09.930
so that there's as much dispersal
01:33:09.930 --> 01:33:11.480
of the infrastructure as possible
01:33:11.480 --> 01:33:14.400
in the hardest to reach
locations is gonna be important.
01:33:14.400 --> 01:33:18.660
And I also think we
need to be looking at ways
01:33:18.660 --> 01:33:20.540
to address this chicken and egg problem
01:33:20.540 --> 01:33:24.500
with the medium and
heavy duty charging stations
01:33:24.500 --> 01:33:27.530
and how can we
possibly look at forecasting
01:33:27.530 --> 01:33:29.120
what the need is gonna be
01:33:29.120 --> 01:33:32.400
and looking at how we can
get the infrastructure out there
01:33:32.400 --> 01:33:37.000
so that those vehicles
will have places to charge.
01:33:37.000 --> 01:33:38.180
So I think that's sort of
01:33:38.180 --> 01:33:42.500
my quick comments on item number one,
01:33:42.500 --> 01:33:46.630
but I really do think the
IOUs should be focusing
01:33:46.630 --> 01:33:49.063
on the areas that are
gonna be hardest to reach.
01:33:51.760 --> 01:33:55.440
I mean, your comments
touched on several issues,
01:33:55.440 --> 01:33:56.273
which is great.
01:33:56.273 --> 01:33:59.960
Do you have a thought about
the chicken and the egg problem,
01:33:59.960 --> 01:34:02.780
which is really one of,
01:34:02.780 --> 01:34:04.570
I mean, that's sort of embedded
01:34:04.570 --> 01:34:06.150
into question two, which is
01:34:10.120 --> 01:34:12.550
a hard one to crack.
01:34:12.550 --> 01:34:14.240
How much do you invest now
01:34:15.420 --> 01:34:18.270
in order to make sure
that the vehicles come?
01:34:18.270 --> 01:34:19.700
How much do you wait?
01:34:19.700 --> 01:34:21.450
If you wait, they may not come.
01:34:21.450 --> 01:34:24.540
Did you have a thought on
that or are you just recognizing
01:34:24.540 --> 01:34:26.543
that it's a critical issue to address?
01:34:27.930 --> 01:34:30.920
Well, I recognize
it's a critical issue.
01:34:30.920 --> 01:34:35.660
I also recognize I probably
need more information on that,
01:34:35.660 --> 01:34:37.940
but I think if we're fairly certain
01:34:37.940 --> 01:34:40.110
that the vehicles will come,
01:34:40.110 --> 01:34:43.220
if there's opportunities to
possibly look at forecasting
01:34:43.220 --> 01:34:46.900
and what would be
the best way to phase in
01:34:46.900 --> 01:34:48.450
some of those charging stations
01:34:48.450 --> 01:34:50.260
so there's sufficient resources
01:34:51.250 --> 01:34:53.960
to allow for investment
in those vehicles,
01:34:53.960 --> 01:34:57.800
I think if we can work with
the other agencies and our staff
01:34:57.800 --> 01:35:00.210
as to what would be
a reasonable forecast
01:35:00.210 --> 01:35:04.480
that we feel is gonna help incentivize
01:35:04.480 --> 01:35:07.030
those vehicles to get on the road
01:35:08.050 --> 01:35:10.710
and allow for some upfront investments
01:35:10.710 --> 01:35:13.050
on getting that infrastructure
01:35:13.050 --> 01:35:16.500
in more than what we have
now, that could be one option.
01:35:16.500 --> 01:35:20.883
But I do acknowledge that
I need more information.
01:35:21.787 --> 01:35:24.810
I think it would be helpful to
hear from the other agencies
01:35:24.810 --> 01:35:27.080
and get some more information from staff
01:35:27.080 --> 01:35:28.760
on what they think would be realistic
01:35:28.760 --> 01:35:32.023
over the next five to seven years.
01:35:33.810 --> 01:35:34.820
This is Yuliya Shmidt
01:35:34.820 --> 01:35:36.310
from Commissioner
Rechtschaffen's office.
01:35:36.310 --> 01:35:38.670
I just wanted to note that
the Air Resources Board
01:35:38.670 --> 01:35:42.480
actually is putting together
maps of fleet as we speak
01:35:42.480 --> 01:35:45.120
to share with utilities and
others so that they know
01:35:45.120 --> 01:35:48.120
where future electrification
loads will come,
01:35:48.120 --> 01:35:49.700
and that ought to help them plan
01:35:49.700 --> 01:35:51.653
the distribution system accordingly.
01:35:56.699 --> 01:35:57.657
Commissioner Rechtschaffen?
01:35:57.657 --> 01:35:59.057
Yes, Commissioner Shiroma.
01:36:00.810 --> 01:36:04.000
I am really intrigued
about this notion
01:36:05.760 --> 01:36:08.890
of this afternoon about
private investments
01:36:08.890 --> 01:36:09.723
and what have you.
01:36:09.723 --> 01:36:12.150
Now I just wanna remind everybody
01:36:12.150 --> 01:36:14.753
that we've got the financing OIR
01:36:16.570 --> 01:36:18.820
and scoping effort,
01:36:18.820 --> 01:36:23.490
and that financing OIR goes
beyond energy efficiency,
01:36:23.490 --> 01:36:27.470
and we scoped in easy infrastructure.
01:36:27.470 --> 01:36:31.110
And we have brought in folks
01:36:31.110 --> 01:36:35.830
from the treasurer's
office, from GO-Biz, IBank,
01:36:35.830 --> 01:36:39.500
and others, banking intuitions,
01:36:39.500 --> 01:36:42.850
to help us look at what kind
01:36:42.850 --> 01:36:45.270
of financing opportunities
there might be.
01:36:45.270 --> 01:36:49.840
So I'll be keeping
01:36:49.840 --> 01:36:54.367
a keen eye to maybe their
blue sky ideas right now,
01:36:54.367 --> 01:36:58.680
but there could be some viable
01:37:00.060 --> 01:37:01.930
non-IOU.
01:37:01.930 --> 01:37:06.810
Maybe it starts with an
IOU and then it goes to
01:37:08.080 --> 01:37:09.260
other kinds of financing,
01:37:09.260 --> 01:37:12.494
but to really look at
how can we maximize
01:37:12.494 --> 01:37:15.033
that rulemaking in this effort.
01:37:18.450 --> 01:37:22.230
And I do think that question
01:37:22.230 --> 01:37:24.733
about build it now, build it later,
01:37:25.610 --> 01:37:27.560
it's almost like you've got a product.
01:37:27.560 --> 01:37:31.770
You've gotta look at, what is
the market study which shows
01:37:33.760 --> 01:37:36.900
where the price points
become really good,
01:37:36.900 --> 01:37:38.513
where you get a higher uptick?
01:37:40.120 --> 01:37:42.210
And you've gotta be
ready for that higher uptick
01:37:42.210 --> 01:37:43.793
to have that infrastructure.
01:37:44.790 --> 01:37:48.483
So between the canopy of agencies
01:37:48.483 --> 01:37:52.250
that we're working with
in the business sector,
01:37:52.250 --> 01:37:55.923
we ought to be able
to get at that analysis.
01:37:57.150 --> 01:37:58.800
I think it's a very,
from my own part,
01:37:58.800 --> 01:38:01.410
I think it's a very hard question,
01:38:01.410 --> 01:38:03.580
and I don't have an answer that relates
01:38:03.580 --> 01:38:07.410
to how much of the
funding should be ratepayers
01:38:07.410 --> 01:38:10.300
versus other public entities.
01:38:10.300 --> 01:38:15.300
I do think that there's a
unique role for the public sector
01:38:15.650 --> 01:38:18.870
in market transformation
given the difficulty
01:38:18.870 --> 01:38:21.300
of predicting when the
right inflection points are,
01:38:21.300 --> 01:38:24.350
as you've said, and
Hannon talked about this.
01:38:24.350 --> 01:38:27.080
I don't think these investments
are gonna be stranded
01:38:27.080 --> 01:38:28.930
because the market's gonna grow.
01:38:28.930 --> 01:38:30.610
We know that just on its own
01:38:30.610 --> 01:38:34.500
and because we have these
regulatory mandates in California.
01:38:34.500 --> 01:38:39.040
We may not have high
utilization in the short term,
01:38:39.040 --> 01:38:41.280
which may make it not profitable
01:38:41.280 --> 01:38:43.237
for private investors to come in
01:38:43.237 --> 01:38:46.470
'cause they're not gonna
be able to recoup their costs,
01:38:46.470 --> 01:38:49.290
but over the medium and long term,
01:38:49.290 --> 01:38:50.890
it will be higher utilization,
01:38:50.890 --> 01:38:53.080
and we'll get over the
chicken and the egg problem.
01:38:53.080 --> 01:38:58.080
So that's why I think public
investment is so critical
01:38:58.410 --> 01:39:02.450
to help deal with this timing question,
01:39:02.450 --> 01:39:04.370
this chicken and the egg question.
01:39:04.370 --> 01:39:06.110
Again, that doesn't answer
01:39:07.560 --> 01:39:10.670
the hard question we're
grappling with, which is,
01:39:10.670 --> 01:39:12.570
does that come from the PUC?
01:39:12.570 --> 01:39:15.700
How much comes from general taxpayers,
01:39:15.700 --> 01:39:20.700
other sources, other public financing?
01:39:21.090 --> 01:39:23.543
So just for whatever that's worth.
01:39:29.730 --> 01:39:33.530
We do work closely with other agencies
01:39:33.530 --> 01:39:36.890
in setting our infrastructure
targets, very, very closely.
01:39:36.890 --> 01:39:40.500
We don't have a formal
decision-making process
01:39:40.500 --> 01:39:42.160
the way we do in some other contexts
01:39:42.160 --> 01:39:44.743
like setting a joint demand forecast.
01:39:45.670 --> 01:39:47.970
I think the informal collaborations
01:39:47.970 --> 01:39:49.530
has been strong and helpful,
01:39:49.530 --> 01:39:53.390
but one question to think
about is whether or not
01:39:53.390 --> 01:39:56.203
that should be more formalized
or changed in any way.
01:40:02.890 --> 01:40:07.730
Are there other thoughts
about this high-level question
01:40:07.730 --> 01:40:09.830
of the role of
01:40:15.039 --> 01:40:18.040
the ratepayer funding
vis-a-vis other sources?
01:40:19.430 --> 01:40:23.290
Any other insights from
what the legislature's done?
01:40:23.290 --> 01:40:26.770
We heard one perspective from
Commissioner Martha Aceves.
01:40:26.770 --> 01:40:29.353
Any other thoughts on this broad topic?
01:40:34.344 --> 01:40:36.240
Commissioner Shiroma?
01:40:36.240 --> 01:40:39.240
Yes, well, maybe not
01:40:40.627 --> 01:40:43.860
necessarily a direct analogy,
01:40:43.860 --> 01:40:47.580
but I have mentioned to staff
01:40:49.651 --> 01:40:52.453
in the cautionary tale of, okay,
01:40:53.490 --> 01:40:56.690
who's paying and who benefits?
01:40:56.690 --> 01:40:59.260
We are keenly encountering this
01:41:00.200 --> 01:41:04.217
in solar and NEM.
01:41:08.345 --> 01:41:11.310
All I'll say is that we
do keep that keen eye
01:41:11.310 --> 01:41:16.053
to we've already required investment
01:41:16.053 --> 01:41:17.270
of what was it, $1.6 billion?
01:41:20.169 --> 01:41:23.360
And we had a host of
that 10 different things,
01:41:23.360 --> 01:41:25.970
and those are (clears throat)
01:41:25.970 --> 01:41:29.390
in customers' rates and bills.
01:41:29.390 --> 01:41:31.650
And meanwhile we have
01:41:33.975 --> 01:41:35.750
a million electric vehicles,
01:41:35.750 --> 01:41:39.960
approximately 75,000 charging stations,
01:41:39.960 --> 01:41:43.990
and so there is this
smaller universe of folks
01:41:43.990 --> 01:41:48.660
who are still invested, they're
saving money on their gas.
01:41:48.660 --> 01:41:49.930
Let's just see. They're saving.
01:41:49.930 --> 01:41:51.870
They don't have to buy gasoline.
01:41:51.870 --> 01:41:52.703
At some point,
01:41:52.703 --> 01:41:56.693
that's gonna help pay off
the investment in the car.
01:41:57.829 --> 01:41:59.080
In the meantime,
01:41:59.080 --> 01:42:02.430
everyone else has helped
pay for the infrastructure.
01:42:02.430 --> 01:42:07.010
Now it could be as
recorded by the statute
01:42:07.010 --> 01:42:09.260
and from a policy perspective.
01:42:09.260 --> 01:42:11.893
Just going forward, it's
just a constant look at,
01:42:15.276 --> 01:42:18.153
how do we do this and
not do it in a vacuum?
01:42:19.880 --> 01:42:22.940
And we are not in this En Banc.
01:42:25.540 --> 01:42:30.540
I mean, can you really be
aware of the customer still
01:42:31.110 --> 01:42:36.110
and measure how has
the affordability receding,
01:42:37.230 --> 01:42:39.810
looking at what can be done
01:42:40.870 --> 01:42:43.943
to keep monthly bills affordable?
01:42:45.130 --> 01:42:50.130
So it's just unnecessary caution.
01:42:51.090 --> 01:42:53.490
Everyone knows that
they're on top of our minds,
01:42:56.380 --> 01:43:00.190
the costs and who benefits.
01:43:00.190 --> 01:43:01.930
So I think maybe the key thing is,
01:43:01.930 --> 01:43:04.070
is to get back to just looking at,
01:43:04.070 --> 01:43:07.430
how do we assure low-income
and disadvantaged communities,
01:43:07.430 --> 01:43:10.733
tribal communities,
vulnerable populations,
01:43:12.740 --> 01:43:14.640
have the rubrics to benefit
01:43:15.690 --> 01:43:17.820
from this very important effort?
01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:22.060
Yeah, I think I agree with you,
01:43:22.060 --> 01:43:25.630
and this, of course,
reportability is preeminent
01:43:25.630 --> 01:43:27.400
and why we were having this En Banc
01:43:27.400 --> 01:43:30.060
and why we're working so hard to wrestle
01:43:30.060 --> 01:43:31.600
with some of these questions.
01:43:31.600 --> 01:43:33.670
No question about it.
01:43:33.670 --> 01:43:37.360
It is worth saying, although it
hasn't been demonstrated yet
01:43:37.360 --> 01:43:38.920
to the extent we think it will be,
01:43:38.920 --> 01:43:40.040
or at least I think it will be,
01:43:40.040 --> 01:43:45.030
that electrification should exert
downward pressure on rates
01:43:45.030 --> 01:43:48.780
that will benefit everyone
in the system going forward.
01:43:48.780 --> 01:43:51.680
And also to the extent
that we target investments
01:43:51.680 --> 01:43:53.300
in disadvantaged communities,
01:43:53.300 --> 01:43:56.210
which suffer disproportionately
poor air quality,
01:43:56.210 --> 01:43:57.460
having electric vehicles,
01:43:57.460 --> 01:44:00.270
especially medium and
heavy duty electric vehicles,
01:44:00.270 --> 01:44:03.550
has direct immediate health benefits
01:44:03.550 --> 01:44:06.950
for lower-income and
disadvantaged residents.
01:44:06.950 --> 01:44:10.550
So that is one important benefit,
01:44:14.140 --> 01:44:16.813
benefits from these investments.
01:44:19.600 --> 01:44:20.433
This is Hannon.
01:44:20.433 --> 01:44:22.070
Would it be okay if I offer a thought?
01:44:23.230 --> 01:44:24.140
Absolutely.
01:44:24.140 --> 01:44:26.253
That's why we're paying
you to be on this panel.
01:44:26.253 --> 01:44:28.820
(chuckles) Great, I'll just say
01:44:28.820 --> 01:44:32.370
for the approach the
Energy Commission is taking
01:44:32.370 --> 01:44:34.530
is that we do recognize, again,
01:44:34.530 --> 01:44:36.890
we want this handoff
to the private market,
01:44:36.890 --> 01:44:40.380
and so we're looking at it
very much in segments, right?
01:44:40.380 --> 01:44:42.770
Are there certain segments
that can operate on their own
01:44:42.770 --> 01:44:45.450
without public investment?
01:44:45.450 --> 01:44:46.650
And there's some that won't, right?
01:44:46.650 --> 01:44:48.190
When we look at the equity question,
01:44:48.190 --> 01:44:49.807
how can we direct
more of our investments
01:44:49.807 --> 01:44:52.810
at the Energy Commission
to low-income and DAC?
01:44:52.810 --> 01:44:54.566
How can we direct
more of our investments,
01:44:54.566 --> 01:44:58.480
MUDs, rural communities,
medium duty/heavy duty?
01:44:58.480 --> 01:45:00.780
Because that's where
those diesel emissions are.
01:45:00.780 --> 01:45:02.420
A lot of this is to right some
01:45:02.420 --> 01:45:04.020
of those inequities that exist
01:45:04.020 --> 01:45:07.040
because our existing
transportation systems emits a lot
01:45:07.040 --> 01:45:09.950
of diesel emissions near port
districts and their highways.
01:45:09.950 --> 01:45:12.500
And so, again, I think
as we look at this,
01:45:12.500 --> 01:45:16.470
it's very much not you
do it or you don't do it.
01:45:16.470 --> 01:45:19.670
It's where do you do it and
how much do you put towards it?
01:45:19.670 --> 01:45:21.310
How much of the private market do it?
01:45:21.310 --> 01:45:22.240
So for the Energy Commission,
01:45:22.240 --> 01:45:23.490
we're looking at all those things
01:45:23.490 --> 01:45:26.880
to see where we can
get the most advantage,
01:45:26.880 --> 01:45:29.680
especially for low-income and
disadvantaged communities.
01:45:32.160 --> 01:45:34.210
Thanks, that's
a good transition.
01:45:34.210 --> 01:45:37.910
Let's jump to the
third topic listed here,
01:45:37.910 --> 01:45:41.873
which is optimizing programs
for critical policy objectives.
01:45:43.300 --> 01:45:47.880
There are lots of policy
objectives we're trying to achieve,
01:45:47.880 --> 01:45:49.650
and we can't necessarily do them all.
01:45:49.650 --> 01:45:51.950
We can't do them all at once.
01:45:51.950 --> 01:45:54.380
We've heard from a
couple of Commissioners
01:45:54.380 --> 01:45:57.490
or maybe three Commissioners
01:45:57.490 --> 01:46:00.360
about some of their initial thoughts,
01:46:00.360 --> 01:46:03.650
including hard-to-reach segments,
01:46:03.650 --> 01:46:05.900
segments of the market
that are not economic,
01:46:05.900 --> 01:46:08.780
where incentives don't work,
01:46:08.780 --> 01:46:13.780
multifamily units, other
disadvantaged communities,
01:46:14.410 --> 01:46:16.660
and that's tended to be
01:46:16.660 --> 01:46:19.840
where we've been
focusing utility applications.
01:46:19.840 --> 01:46:21.913
Well, let's open it up more broadly.
01:46:27.151 --> 01:46:28.510
What are the objectives
01:46:28.510 --> 01:46:30.863
that we should be
maximizing towards yet?
01:46:33.300 --> 01:46:34.480
You could think about doing
01:46:34.480 --> 01:46:37.610
as much as possible as soon as possible,
01:46:37.610 --> 01:46:39.473
filling gaps by the market,
01:46:42.030 --> 01:46:47.030
promoting resiliency,
accelerating specific use cases,
01:46:47.140 --> 01:46:49.780
tying what we do to state goals,
01:46:49.780 --> 01:46:54.100
such as the Air Resources
Board, a bus fleet rule,
01:46:54.100 --> 01:46:56.910
heavy duty fleet rule, and so forth.
01:46:56.910 --> 01:47:01.030
What other things should
we tell staff and the utilities
01:47:02.250 --> 01:47:06.773
to focus on in the
expenditure of ratepayer funds?
01:47:22.060 --> 01:47:24.590
Okay, well, I'm gonna sound
obviously redundant here,
01:47:24.590 --> 01:47:27.220
but the thing that
needs to be top of mind
01:47:27.220 --> 01:47:30.800
is keeping the fuel affordable.
01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:33.443
And that's not an expenditure issue.
01:47:33.443 --> 01:47:36.433
It's more of a
non-expenditure issue perhaps.
01:47:37.570 --> 01:47:39.050
Right, so what that
does that mean in the,
01:47:39.050 --> 01:47:40.640
what does that mean in this context?
01:47:40.640 --> 01:47:42.740
If we're gonna spend
some amount of money,
01:47:43.950 --> 01:47:45.200
where should we spend it?
01:47:46.413 --> 01:47:48.890
Well, I think we
really need to step back
01:47:48.890 --> 01:47:51.850
and ask ourselves, "Do
we need to spend more?"
01:47:51.850 --> 01:47:52.760
Honestly.
01:47:52.760 --> 01:47:57.760
If we're already required to approve
01:47:57.920 --> 01:48:02.780
of prudence expenditures
of make ready infrastructure
01:48:02.780 --> 01:48:04.293
as part of distribution costs,
01:48:06.900 --> 01:48:10.960
that's a lot, and it's
gonna get really hidden,
01:48:10.960 --> 01:48:12.537
and we're going to
have to really drive it out.
01:48:12.537 --> 01:48:14.570
And the importance of transparency
01:48:14.570 --> 01:48:17.980
is gonna be really important
for this team in particular
01:48:17.980 --> 01:48:20.453
to draw out and have that transparency.
01:48:22.360 --> 01:48:29.970
So I think we start there
and have that constant
01:48:33.490 --> 01:48:35.210
control on ourselves
01:48:35.210 --> 01:48:38.803
that we need to ensure
that affordability of the fuel.
01:48:42.760 --> 01:48:44.203
I think it's too binary.
01:48:45.140 --> 01:48:46.773
The discussion's too binary.
01:48:53.023 --> 01:48:54.950
Okay, you want us to be,
01:48:54.950 --> 01:48:57.300
yeah, you want us to be at a higher,
01:48:57.300 --> 01:49:00.600
you want us to be at the
higher-level question of,
01:49:00.600 --> 01:49:05.110
do we need to spend anything
more than is mandated already
01:49:05.110 --> 01:49:06.720
or that we've already spent?
01:49:06.720 --> 01:49:09.180
That's the paramount question for you
01:49:09.180 --> 01:49:11.000
to ensure affordability.
01:49:11.000 --> 01:49:14.560
Yeah, and also
but it's not this issue
01:49:14.560 --> 01:49:18.030
that this chicken and
the egg issue for me.
01:49:18.030 --> 01:49:20.240
It's definitely we want
01:49:20.240 --> 01:49:22.970
to get the charging infrastructure out.
01:49:22.970 --> 01:49:25.210
It's, how do we finance it?
01:49:25.210 --> 01:49:27.480
And we have very limited, I mean,
01:49:27.480 --> 01:49:30.403
the closest piece of it is the TNCs,
01:49:31.270 --> 01:49:34.850
where we could have a more
progressive way of financing it
01:49:35.730 --> 01:49:37.533
not through utility ratepayers.
01:49:38.660 --> 01:49:40.680
And obviously our sister agencies,
01:49:40.680 --> 01:49:43.140
particularly the Air
Board and the districts,
01:49:43.140 --> 01:49:45.470
have far more authority to actually find
01:49:45.470 --> 01:49:48.270
a more progressive way of
financing this infrastructure.
01:49:50.750 --> 01:49:52.000
What would that look like,
01:49:52.000 --> 01:49:56.780
telling the TNCs they have
to build and install chargers?
01:49:56.780 --> 01:50:00.740
They're under a mandate to reduce
01:50:02.280 --> 01:50:03.620
their vehicle miles traveled,
01:50:03.620 --> 01:50:05.290
and Uber and Lyft have
said they're gonna go
01:50:05.290 --> 01:50:07.960
to 100% ZEV by 2030.
01:50:07.960 --> 01:50:12.773
So what would the model
you have in mind look like?
01:50:14.250 --> 01:50:16.940
I think that's a great
question for the public.
01:50:16.940 --> 01:50:18.540
How do they meet this obligation
01:50:18.540 --> 01:50:20.723
so it's actually implementable and real?
01:50:21.650 --> 01:50:25.743
The TNCs have the greatest
amount of data of their routes,
01:50:27.327 --> 01:50:30.350
where the best locations
for charging would be,
01:50:30.350 --> 01:50:35.090
and could easily
optimize charging locations
01:50:35.090 --> 01:50:38.843
and certainly finance them
better than utility ratepayers.
01:50:42.114 --> 01:50:45.147
Okay.
01:50:45.147 --> 01:50:47.220
'Cause we don't directly control
01:50:47.220 --> 01:50:50.293
that aspect of the TNCs, of course.
01:50:51.620 --> 01:50:54.703
We have a piece of them, but, okay.
01:50:55.930 --> 01:50:58.283
Other thoughts? Commissioner Houck?
01:50:59.230 --> 01:51:01.230
Yeah, I just wanted to clarify.
01:51:01.230 --> 01:51:03.690
When I had mentioned the
chicken and the egg issue,
01:51:03.690 --> 01:51:05.350
I was specifically referring
01:51:05.350 --> 01:51:07.430
to the medium and heavy-duty vehicles
01:51:08.490 --> 01:51:09.910
and the issue of
01:51:11.870 --> 01:51:14.634
how we get those trucks on the road
01:51:14.634 --> 01:51:16.570
and how much
infrastructure has to come first
01:51:16.570 --> 01:51:17.403
before the truck.
01:51:17.403 --> 01:51:19.610
So that was specifically geared
01:51:19.610 --> 01:51:21.270
at the medium and heavy duty.
01:51:21.270 --> 01:51:25.500
I also agree transparency
is gonna be really important,
01:51:25.500 --> 01:51:27.770
especially if most of these costs
01:51:27.770 --> 01:51:30.187
are gonna be addressed through the GRCs,
01:51:30.187 --> 01:51:33.110
and I really do hope
we can get to a point
01:51:33.110 --> 01:51:36.300
where we have something
similar to this dashboard
01:51:36.300 --> 01:51:38.670
that looks at our costs
and what we're doing
01:51:38.670 --> 01:51:43.670
so it's very clear on how much
is being spent on what areas.
01:51:44.120 --> 01:51:48.210
And, for me, I think that the focus
01:51:48.210 --> 01:51:51.840
on the amount that we are
spending should be to fill gaps
01:51:51.840 --> 01:51:54.530
and look at areas that
are gonna be hard to reach
01:51:54.530 --> 01:51:56.650
and hard to expand into.
01:51:56.650 --> 01:52:01.260
If we've got other programs
that are already oversubscribed
01:52:01.260 --> 01:52:05.250
that are already investing
private non-ratepayer dollars,
01:52:05.250 --> 01:52:07.460
I think those should be maximized,
01:52:07.460 --> 01:52:10.690
and we should be getting away
01:52:10.690 --> 01:52:12.430
from rate-based as much as possible
01:52:12.430 --> 01:52:15.360
and looking at rebates to
the extent we can do that
01:52:15.360 --> 01:52:18.420
and that a ratepayer dollars
should really be focused
01:52:18.420 --> 01:52:21.460
on, again, filling gaps in equity.
01:52:21.460 --> 01:52:24.110
And again, just really
re-emphasize the need
01:52:24.110 --> 01:52:26.420
to have transparency so that we can see
01:52:26.420 --> 01:52:28.290
where those costs are going
01:52:28.290 --> 01:52:31.580
and come up with some kind
of apples-to-apples comparison
01:52:31.580 --> 01:52:35.290
across the utilities as
well so that our auditing
01:52:35.290 --> 01:52:40.290
and our accounting can really
tell what costs more where
01:52:40.870 --> 01:52:43.790
and be able to look at
01:52:43.790 --> 01:52:46.533
how those expenditures are being made.
01:52:50.840 --> 01:52:55.223
And there have been
any discussions in a larger,
01:52:57.260 --> 01:52:59.510
with sister agencies, with GO-Biz,
01:52:59.510 --> 01:53:02.160
about any other financing ideas,
01:53:02.160 --> 01:53:05.730
private sector financing,
investments, et cetera,
01:53:05.730 --> 01:53:08.730
that haven't been mentioned yet today
01:53:08.730 --> 01:53:10.650
or could we pursue any of that?
01:53:10.650 --> 01:53:13.030
I have the same overall concerns here
01:53:13.030 --> 01:53:15.420
as I do as welfare mitigation.
01:53:15.420 --> 01:53:16.720
It's these costs are huge,
01:53:16.720 --> 01:53:19.040
and they're just sort of unsustainable,
01:53:19.040 --> 01:53:21.200
in the old-fashioned way.
01:53:21.200 --> 01:53:23.947
And we keep going and
going after the same well,
01:53:23.947 --> 01:53:26.050
and I know you're not
trying to do that here,
01:53:26.050 --> 01:53:29.980
but I do equate it a
little bit to our dilemma
01:53:29.980 --> 01:53:32.860
with the cost of welfare mitigation.
01:53:32.860 --> 01:53:35.690
And when you put all of these costs,
01:53:35.690 --> 01:53:37.473
or even some of these costs,
01:53:39.010 --> 01:53:42.477
a portion of these costs on
ratepayers, it's just, anyway,
01:53:43.797 --> 01:53:45.423
it's very, very difficult.
01:53:48.150 --> 01:53:51.980
I think GO-Biz has had
thought about some ideas.
01:53:51.980 --> 01:53:55.430
I think Dan Adler had an idea
for using the Catalyst Fund,
01:53:55.430 --> 01:53:57.543
which is a version of the Green Bank,
01:53:58.720 --> 01:54:03.313
and get an infusion of
money to capitalize financing.
01:54:03.313 --> 01:54:06.490
That hasn't happened yet,
but there are people thinking
01:54:06.490 --> 01:54:09.730
about those ideas, President Batjer.
01:54:09.730 --> 01:54:13.330
I don't know the details and
we haven't yet progressed
01:54:15.070 --> 01:54:16.930
very far on them.
01:54:18.140 --> 01:54:20.084
I can comment on that.
01:54:20.084 --> 01:54:21.740
Please, talk to me, Hannon.
01:54:21.740 --> 01:54:22.770
Yeah, so
we've been speaking
01:54:22.770 --> 01:54:24.540
to GO-Biz and the Catalyst Fund,
01:54:24.540 --> 01:54:26.230
Dan Adler as well and some other folks,
01:54:26.230 --> 01:54:29.930
to see, can we move
away from grants to loans
01:54:29.930 --> 01:54:31.710
for certain market segments?
01:54:31.710 --> 01:54:35.000
Again, knowing we're not
gonna to do the same thing
01:54:35.000 --> 01:54:37.270
for every market
segment at the same time,
01:54:37.270 --> 01:54:38.670
but are there some market segments
01:54:38.670 --> 01:54:41.400
where we can start
shifting to loan programs?
01:54:41.400 --> 01:54:43.780
We've also started an internal effort.
01:54:43.780 --> 01:54:47.520
We're meeting with ports
and different folks now
01:54:47.520 --> 01:54:49.760
through an RFI process
to get more information,
01:54:49.760 --> 01:54:51.830
and we'll hold a
workshop on this as well.
01:54:51.830 --> 01:54:53.490
Happy to invite the
Public Utility Commission
01:54:53.490 --> 01:54:54.540
or anyone else.
01:54:54.540 --> 01:54:55.790
But we are looking to see,
01:54:55.790 --> 01:54:59.060
how can we shift some funding to loan?
01:54:59.060 --> 01:55:02.040
We think there may
be some potential there.
01:55:02.040 --> 01:55:04.610
We wanna understand it
better, but I agree with you.
01:55:04.610 --> 01:55:05.477
We can't do grants,
01:55:05.477 --> 01:55:07.540
and definitely there's not
enough dollars in the world
01:55:07.540 --> 01:55:10.820
for us to fund everything,
but we do continue to,
01:55:10.820 --> 01:55:12.410
you know, grants is a
really powerful method
01:55:12.410 --> 01:55:15.083
to send those people forward.
01:55:19.690 --> 01:55:21.330
If I could just
interrupt back again,
01:55:21.330 --> 01:55:24.160
which is one of the
concepts I've been pushing on
01:55:24.160 --> 01:55:26.670
is it is a loan concept,
01:55:26.670 --> 01:55:30.063
which is if we're gonna
use the ratepayer funds,
01:55:30.930 --> 01:55:35.930
we could structure them
as loans for the utilities.
01:55:35.990 --> 01:55:38.690
There's downward pressure
that Cliff is talking about.
01:55:39.600 --> 01:55:41.860
This is the better story with EVs
01:55:41.860 --> 01:55:46.610
as compared to our endless no return
01:55:46.610 --> 01:55:48.583
with our welfare mitigation dollars.
01:55:49.760 --> 01:55:52.060
At least with the EV infrastructure,
01:55:52.060 --> 01:55:54.890
we're gonna have more sales.
01:55:54.890 --> 01:55:58.290
And so it is a happier
story in that regard,
01:55:58.290 --> 01:56:00.440
but we haven't really
figured out the math
01:56:00.440 --> 01:56:04.080
on when is that return happening
01:56:04.080 --> 01:56:06.280
for that greater sell of electricity.
01:56:06.280 --> 01:56:09.523
And I think we need to
figure out the math now,
01:56:10.470 --> 01:56:15.470
particularly in sectors where
we can leverage other funds.
01:56:15.810 --> 01:56:18.760
And we know that individual ports
01:56:18.760 --> 01:56:22.280
are having port fee discussions
to leverage more funding
01:56:22.280 --> 01:56:24.140
for this type of infrastructure.
01:56:24.140 --> 01:56:28.690
There are certainly a lot of,
even those Hannon's described,
01:56:28.690 --> 01:56:30.950
the federal situation
is not a guarantee.
01:56:30.950 --> 01:56:35.863
It's certainly, from my
perspective, a very likely outcome.
01:56:37.620 --> 01:56:40.760
And maybe to go back to your
question more directly, Cliff,
01:56:40.760 --> 01:56:45.480
is that we're clearly not succeeding
01:56:45.480 --> 01:56:49.540
in the heavy duty sector and
we're underspending right now.
01:56:49.540 --> 01:56:52.510
Why don't we double down
there and really focus in?
01:56:52.510 --> 01:56:54.460
We've already authorized funding there.
01:56:55.726 --> 01:56:59.250
Let's get in there and figure that out.
01:56:59.250 --> 01:57:01.090
That's where, as you said,
01:57:01.090 --> 01:57:02.557
that's where the local area impacts are,
01:57:02.557 --> 01:57:04.990
and that's where there's opportunity
01:57:04.990 --> 01:57:07.210
for more jobs, et cetera.
01:57:07.210 --> 01:57:10.890
And, yeah, so those
are two different thoughts,
01:57:10.890 --> 01:57:13.580
is really focusing on heavy duty
01:57:13.580 --> 01:57:15.760
and get our funding to a place
01:57:15.760 --> 01:57:17.940
where we're actually spending it
01:57:17.940 --> 01:57:21.174
and then figure out these
alternative financing that's in...
01:57:21.174 --> 01:57:23.040
Maybe I'll go to Genevieve's point
01:57:23.040 --> 01:57:25.240
that she has this in her scope
01:57:25.240 --> 01:57:29.913
of looking at how to do that
so they pay for themselves.
01:57:31.642 --> 01:57:34.326
So Mrs. Shiroma, do
you have in your scope
01:57:34.326 --> 01:57:37.670
something like on-bill
financing or on-bill repayment
01:57:37.670 --> 01:57:41.493
for electric vehicle infrastructure?
01:57:44.870 --> 01:57:47.433
The simple answer is yes.
01:57:50.430 --> 01:57:51.650
Yes.
01:57:51.650 --> 01:57:56.650
I mean, there is still work ensuing,
01:57:58.730 --> 01:58:00.850
and I'm trying to remember it, yes,
01:58:00.850 --> 01:58:05.183
through the treasurer's
office, the case to financing.
01:58:06.650 --> 01:58:09.280
I think we voted to approve that
01:58:10.380 --> 01:58:15.250
and to also provide
01:58:15.250 --> 01:58:19.360
for partnering up with
municipal utilities as well,
01:58:19.360 --> 01:58:21.823
where they are providing
financing options.
01:58:25.210 --> 01:58:29.460
So we've got that
framework, so last year's yes.
01:58:29.460 --> 01:58:32.450
And by the way, while
I'm answering this question,
01:58:32.450 --> 01:58:36.380
I also want to remind all of us
01:58:36.380 --> 01:58:40.500
that we've got the Green
Mile Standard Commission,
01:58:40.500 --> 01:58:45.240
the fact that it has pointed us to this.
01:58:45.240 --> 01:58:50.240
And that the Air Resources Board
01:58:51.010 --> 01:58:58.483
in adopting out the
metrics for that has,
01:59:00.390 --> 01:59:03.360
not that they can tell
us, but they have told us
01:59:04.790 --> 01:59:06.290
that we must advance the goals
01:59:08.070 --> 01:59:09.950
by encouraging collaboration
01:59:09.950 --> 01:59:13.050
between electric vehicle
charging companies,
01:59:13.050 --> 01:59:16.830
investor on utilities,
transportation network companies,
01:59:16.830 --> 01:59:21.810
and fleet owners, serve
transportation network companies
01:59:21.810 --> 01:59:23.900
on investments that
would support the program.
01:59:23.900 --> 01:59:28.120
So the regulation
01:59:29.290 --> 01:59:31.040
adopted by the Air Resources Board
01:59:31.040 --> 01:59:34.033
is they issued their 15-day notice.
01:59:36.250 --> 01:59:40.400
Well, 'cause meanwhile,
we have work underway,
01:59:40.400 --> 01:59:43.360
and that's as much
detail as I can give folks
01:59:43.360 --> 01:59:47.070
because it is underway.
01:59:47.070 --> 01:59:49.030
Commissioner Rechtschaffen and I
01:59:49.030 --> 01:59:50.570
have a battery keen on this.
01:59:50.570 --> 01:59:52.293
We don't have it with others.
01:59:53.340 --> 01:59:55.823
But I think there's a
lot of effort going on
01:59:55.823 --> 01:59:57.680
with financing, greenhouse standards,
01:59:57.680 --> 02:00:04.023
so whose to provide for
some foundational work,
02:00:05.420 --> 02:00:08.780
is hitting us for more
options than just simply,
02:00:08.780 --> 02:00:10.673
well, let's put it in the rates.
02:00:13.580 --> 02:00:15.950
Okay, we don't have
a great deal of time left
02:00:15.950 --> 02:00:18.970
before we need to
turn to public comment,
02:00:18.970 --> 02:00:21.700
but I want to at least touch on quickly
02:00:21.700 --> 02:00:24.050
two or three ideas that
have come up already
02:00:24.050 --> 02:00:26.983
and just get folks' reactions.
02:00:28.010 --> 02:00:30.310
So whatever level of
ratepayer investment
02:00:30.310 --> 02:00:32.410
we're gonna agree to,
02:00:32.410 --> 02:00:35.110
there's a question of how
it should be best delivered.
02:00:36.210 --> 02:00:38.920
We've had utility
ownership of make readys
02:00:38.920 --> 02:00:43.440
and chargers in the early
phases of our programs.
02:00:43.440 --> 02:00:45.160
The thought was that that was necessary
02:00:45.160 --> 02:00:47.780
in order to get customers to adopt
02:00:47.780 --> 02:00:51.760
and make it easier to have
them maintain the chargers,
02:00:51.760 --> 02:00:53.040
and so forth, and so on.
02:00:53.040 --> 02:00:54.960
We've been moving
away from that increasingly
02:00:54.960 --> 02:00:57.960
in some of the applications
that we've approved,
02:00:57.960 --> 02:01:01.080
and that assumption
seems less tenable now.
02:01:01.080 --> 02:01:03.090
It seems like there's a
lot of charging companies
02:01:03.090 --> 02:01:05.750
who can provide the
kinda turnkey services
02:01:05.750 --> 02:01:08.910
that utilities can
provide to the ownership.
02:01:08.910 --> 02:01:11.500
So one question is,
02:01:11.500 --> 02:01:15.700
should we consider just expensing
02:01:15.700 --> 02:01:20.830
some of the equipment
and could we have that model
02:01:20.830 --> 02:01:22.533
where the utilities
actually own the equipment,
02:01:22.533 --> 02:01:24.870
it's just not in their capital base?
02:01:24.870 --> 02:01:29.170
That's been done in AB-1054.
02:01:29.170 --> 02:01:32.040
Hannon suggested a version
of this where there's a line item
02:01:32.040 --> 02:01:34.540
that utilities pay for maintenance.
02:01:34.540 --> 02:01:37.850
So what about that concept?
02:01:37.850 --> 02:01:39.420
Maybe I'll ask Ed Randolph
02:01:40.650 --> 02:01:43.450
'cause I know you've thought about this.
02:01:43.450 --> 02:01:46.410
What about this idea of
just having utilities own it
02:01:46.410 --> 02:01:51.173
and the items are expensed?
02:01:55.300 --> 02:01:56.440
Thanks. Thanks, Cliff.
02:01:56.440 --> 02:01:58.533
I think that's probably
something, along with others,
02:01:58.533 --> 02:02:00.453
that should be on the table.
02:02:02.950 --> 02:02:06.000
I'll flag that I think
you can only do that
02:02:06.000 --> 02:02:09.610
so much without impacting
02:02:09.610 --> 02:02:13.533
the utilities' own financial situation,
02:02:16.630 --> 02:02:18.700
their whole business model,
02:02:18.700 --> 02:02:19.870
and this isn't a California issue.
02:02:19.870 --> 02:02:21.520
It's a national/international issue
02:02:21.520 --> 02:02:23.020
of how utilities are financed.
02:02:24.720 --> 02:02:26.370
They can only quote, unquote,
02:02:26.370 --> 02:02:28.750
own so much and not
earn a rate of return on that,
02:02:28.750 --> 02:02:30.800
so that's something
we'd have to explore.
02:02:32.160 --> 02:02:35.260
I would think we would wanna consider
02:02:35.260 --> 02:02:37.960
kind of the range of
financial options out there
02:02:37.960 --> 02:02:40.533
on how to fund it
beyond just that one tool.
02:02:42.852 --> 02:02:44.100
Fair enough.
02:02:44.100 --> 02:02:46.330
One idea we've talked about
02:02:46.330 --> 02:02:49.320
is declining incentives.
02:02:49.320 --> 02:02:53.000
Josh, could you tell us in a
minute how that would work,
02:02:53.000 --> 02:02:54.639
what the inspiration for that is?
02:02:54.639 --> 02:02:56.639
And then maybe we can get some feedback.
02:02:58.970 --> 02:02:59.803
Yeah, sure.
02:02:59.803 --> 02:03:04.140
So that concept, we haven't
developed it too much.
02:03:04.140 --> 02:03:08.190
It's somewhat inspired
by programs that we've run
02:03:08.190 --> 02:03:11.110
in the space prior, like the
California Solar Initiative,
02:03:11.110 --> 02:03:13.960
which is a declining
block incentive program
02:03:13.960 --> 02:03:18.040
that spurred the solar
industry in California.
02:03:18.040 --> 02:03:21.620
So TURN did in some comments
02:03:21.620 --> 02:03:24.280
on the transportation
electrification framework,
02:03:24.280 --> 02:03:27.980
proposed some basics of what a program
02:03:27.980 --> 02:03:29.420
like that might look like,
02:03:29.420 --> 02:03:31.270
but again, going back to the CSI model,
02:03:31.270 --> 02:03:34.020
you could imagine
as we hit various levels
02:03:34.020 --> 02:03:35.263
of charging deployment,
02:03:36.100 --> 02:03:40.460
a per port rebate amount
could decline over time,
02:03:40.460 --> 02:03:42.233
commensurate with
the level of installation,
02:03:42.233 --> 02:03:44.223
just something simple like that.
02:03:45.470 --> 02:03:47.960
There are pros and cons
to an approach like that,
02:03:47.960 --> 02:03:49.990
would require us to really understand
02:03:49.990 --> 02:03:51.943
the market dynamics and pricing.
02:03:53.160 --> 02:03:55.470
There are definitely
some learning curves
02:03:55.470 --> 02:03:56.800
that I think we're still onward.
02:03:56.800 --> 02:03:59.010
Technology prices will decline,
02:03:59.010 --> 02:04:02.480
similar to what we saw in
solar with government support,
02:04:02.480 --> 02:04:04.770
but there's also you
kind of butt up against
02:04:06.704 --> 02:04:09.070
some of the cost
associated with installation,
02:04:09.070 --> 02:04:10.530
such as trenching,
02:04:10.530 --> 02:04:12.450
and some of the
costs are a little bit hard
02:04:12.450 --> 02:04:13.860
to drive out from that equation.
02:04:13.860 --> 02:04:17.220
So just requires a bit of
oversight to understand
02:04:17.220 --> 02:04:20.143
how your cost curve is functioning,
02:04:21.410 --> 02:04:25.053
but, yeah, that is an
option on the table.
02:04:28.920 --> 02:04:30.220
Thoughts about that idea
02:04:30.220 --> 02:04:34.410
or other ideas that have come up today?
02:04:34.410 --> 02:04:39.410
Just policy options for
delivering the investments,
02:04:39.580 --> 02:04:43.763
whatever level we have, different
mechanisms to think about.
02:04:51.010 --> 02:04:51.843
There wasn't one
02:04:51.843 --> 02:04:53.780
other option that-
Commissioner Rechtschaffen.
02:04:53.780 --> 02:04:55.590
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.
02:04:55.590 --> 02:04:56.440
Josh, go ahead.
02:04:59.270 --> 02:05:00.103
I was just going
02:05:00.103 --> 02:05:00.940
to elevate again the-
I was actually gonna,
02:05:00.940 --> 02:05:04.600
can I just jumped in on
some of the other reasons
02:05:04.600 --> 02:05:07.490
for doing something
like a declining rebate,
02:05:07.490 --> 02:05:08.940
just the problems?
Please.
02:05:09.900 --> 02:05:11.640
Some of the
problems that it could solve,
02:05:11.640 --> 02:05:14.950
so we've been doing ad hoc applications
02:05:14.950 --> 02:05:16.770
for the past several years,
02:05:16.770 --> 02:05:19.740
so at any given time, we're
reviewing utility applications,
02:05:19.740 --> 02:05:22.380
and every single party is involved
02:05:22.380 --> 02:05:23.950
in every single one of these,
02:05:23.950 --> 02:05:27.380
and we're deciding on the
same issues every single time:
02:05:27.380 --> 02:05:29.623
budgets, local utility ownership,
02:05:29.623 --> 02:05:32.720
what the rebate level
should be, things like that.
02:05:32.720 --> 02:05:36.690
If you had a long-term program,
02:05:36.690 --> 02:05:38.700
you could eliminate that churn.
02:05:38.700 --> 02:05:40.750
You could have a
long-term market signal.
02:05:42.970 --> 02:05:45.890
And maybe it only makes
sense for the light duty sector,
02:05:45.890 --> 02:05:47.660
not sure about the medium and heavy,
02:05:47.660 --> 02:05:52.040
but at least they could create
more certainty in the market
02:05:52.040 --> 02:05:54.610
and reducing the sentence over time
02:05:54.610 --> 02:05:55.960
and solve some of the problems
02:05:55.960 --> 02:05:59.790
of the burden that we put on parties
02:05:59.790 --> 02:06:04.217
for participating in our
proceedings time and again.
02:06:06.094 --> 02:06:07.340
And Commissioner Rechtschaffen,
02:06:07.340 --> 02:06:09.167
if I could just weigh
in a little bit here.
02:06:09.167 --> 02:06:12.310
And I know that the
purpose of this is a roundtable
02:06:12.310 --> 02:06:13.143
with the Commissioners
02:06:13.143 --> 02:06:16.670
and get some long-term
direction there as well,
02:06:16.670 --> 02:06:18.380
which is important.
02:06:18.380 --> 02:06:20.590
One thing we should think about
02:06:20.590 --> 02:06:25.010
if we're gonna start
doing different programs,
02:06:25.010 --> 02:06:27.470
and especially the
declining rebate program,
02:06:27.470 --> 02:06:31.110
which Sara came in there and myself
02:06:31.110 --> 02:06:32.400
are both very familiar with
02:06:32.400 --> 02:06:34.830
from the California Solar Initiative
02:06:34.830 --> 02:06:37.690
and other rebates like
that, how that works.
02:06:37.690 --> 02:06:40.160
But a lot of if we're talking about
02:06:40.160 --> 02:06:43.250
behind-the-meter infrastructure
and focused on that,
02:06:43.250 --> 02:06:45.320
there are a lot of issues
going on behind the meter
02:06:45.320 --> 02:06:48.540
right now that are
targets of California policy
02:06:48.540 --> 02:06:53.390
in terms of installing
batteries for home charging
02:06:53.390 --> 02:06:58.320
and home electrification
that share the infrastructure
02:06:58.320 --> 02:07:01.461
that's needed behind the meter.
02:07:01.461 --> 02:07:03.210
So I think if we're gonna consider
02:07:03.210 --> 02:07:04.992
those types of approaches,
02:07:04.992 --> 02:07:07.980
Sara's right that having
a developed program
02:07:07.980 --> 02:07:12.545
that has a long-term
vision and payout structure
02:07:12.545 --> 02:07:16.380
tends to be more effective
than short-term programs,
02:07:16.380 --> 02:07:19.770
but we should focus on kind
of the totality of the house
02:07:19.770 --> 02:07:21.164
or the totality of the business
02:07:21.164 --> 02:07:23.400
and everything we wanna
do in these programs
02:07:23.400 --> 02:07:26.100
since a lot of this infrastructure
is gonna be shared.
02:07:29.580 --> 02:07:32.760
Thank you. Very
important considerations.
02:07:32.760 --> 02:07:34.253
Let me ask one last question.
02:07:35.217 --> 02:07:39.580
What about Hannon's idea of
having utilities fund a program
02:07:39.580 --> 02:07:44.580
that the CEC administers are supposing?
02:07:45.040 --> 02:07:49.342
That's similar to another
option that was in, I think,
02:07:49.342 --> 02:07:51.440
the material the Energy
Division circulated,
02:07:51.440 --> 02:07:54.110
which is having
third-party solicitations
02:07:54.110 --> 02:07:56.227
and third party administer the programs.
02:07:58.141 --> 02:07:59.847
What about those (mic
distortion garbles speech)?
02:07:59.847 --> 02:08:00.743
Any comments?
02:08:06.090 --> 02:08:07.338
And Commissioner,
and are you aiming that
02:08:07.338 --> 02:08:09.088
at other Commissioners or at staff?
02:08:10.210 --> 02:08:11.660
Yeah, I mean, I wanna see
02:08:11.660 --> 02:08:13.867
if any of the Commissioners had
02:08:13.867 --> 02:08:15.980
any thoughts about that.
Yeah, I was about to say,
02:08:15.980 --> 02:08:19.390
and I wanted to
understand Sara's statement
02:08:19.390 --> 02:08:23.390
about not heavy duty
because whether it's the CEC
02:08:23.390 --> 02:08:27.193
or as a utilities directly
administering a Senate program,
02:08:28.410 --> 02:08:31.770
sounds like maybe the CEC would do it
02:08:31.770 --> 02:08:35.090
in a more cost-effective manner perhaps.
02:08:35.090 --> 02:08:39.360
But when I think about the CSI program,
02:08:39.360 --> 02:08:43.460
I do think there was certainly
a market development
02:08:43.460 --> 02:08:46.560
and contributing to costs coming down,
02:08:46.560 --> 02:08:50.030
that the reality is it
was not equitable.
02:08:50.030 --> 02:08:54.450
I think we had GSI maybe
maximum of 5% participation
02:08:54.450 --> 02:08:56.250
of low-income customers.
02:08:56.250 --> 02:08:59.640
So we should not think
that, especially if it's a...
02:08:59.640 --> 02:09:01.164
I guess my question for Sara is,
02:09:01.164 --> 02:09:02.353
isn't it better to have
an incentive program
02:09:02.353 --> 02:09:07.250
for the heavy duty, where
at least it'll be that co-benefit
02:09:07.250 --> 02:09:08.603
for the local communities?
02:09:13.240 --> 02:09:15.420
I think you could design.
02:09:15.420 --> 02:09:16.660
The problem we're trying to solve
02:09:16.660 --> 02:09:19.930
is getting infrastructure out there
02:09:19.930 --> 02:09:22.034
and helping customers, right?
02:09:22.034 --> 02:09:23.863
And in underserved communities.
02:09:23.863 --> 02:09:26.117
And one of the most important things
02:09:26.117 --> 02:09:28.250
that the low-income
solar programs did were
02:09:28.250 --> 02:09:32.370
was actually installing
infrastructure on customer sites.
02:09:32.370 --> 02:09:33.650
So you can design a program
02:09:33.650 --> 02:09:37.790
and be faster and focused
on under therateutic use.
02:09:40.460 --> 02:09:43.180
I don't think-
That's right.
02:09:43.180 --> 02:09:46.650
I was gonna say, as
I'm thinking about that
02:09:46.650 --> 02:09:49.177
and I think it has attractive elements,
02:09:49.177 --> 02:09:53.131
I think you would wanna
have higher incentive levels
02:09:53.131 --> 02:09:54.807
for lower-income consumers
02:09:54.807 --> 02:09:58.410
to deal with the problem
you're identifying.
02:09:58.410 --> 02:10:00.730
And you could do it for the medium
02:10:00.730 --> 02:10:02.380
and heavy duty sectors just as well
02:10:02.380 --> 02:10:04.580
so that they have a
predictable source of funding.
02:10:04.580 --> 02:10:07.493
And, by the way, as Hannon was saying,
02:10:08.680 --> 02:10:11.190
look, you wanna get
higher incentive level,
02:10:11.190 --> 02:10:15.381
electrify it sooner, which
is to suit our state goals.
02:10:15.381 --> 02:10:17.262
I'm sorry, Josh. Please, go ahead.
02:10:17.262 --> 02:10:18.745
(notification bell dinging)
02:10:18.745 --> 02:10:20.562
No, I was gonna say, I was
gonna make the same point.
02:10:20.562 --> 02:10:23.060
I think that you would
(indistinct) design a program.
02:10:23.060 --> 02:10:25.553
And I think where as with CSI,
02:10:27.450 --> 02:10:32.059
a lot of that funding went to
benefit individual homeowners,
02:10:32.059 --> 02:10:33.680
the solar was installed on their house.
02:10:33.680 --> 02:10:38.680
Obviously most of those were
wealthy or middle-income folks.
02:10:38.810 --> 02:10:41.580
Here we're talking about
public charging infrastructure
02:10:41.580 --> 02:10:44.056
that has the ability to
benefit whole communities,
02:10:44.056 --> 02:10:44.990
and the specific (mic
distortion garbles speech)
02:10:44.990 --> 02:10:49.330
is split with a test,
specific individual test.
02:10:49.330 --> 02:10:52.330
But definitely when we've
been thinking about this,
02:10:52.330 --> 02:10:56.240
we have discussed
the potential for actors,
02:10:56.240 --> 02:10:59.456
for key targets and
disadvantaged communities,
02:10:59.456 --> 02:11:02.920
and making sure that those
investments would be focused
02:11:02.920 --> 02:11:07.023
in communities that we wanna focus on.
02:11:08.780 --> 02:11:09.613
Question.
02:11:11.744 --> 02:11:14.020
Anyway, when we talk about
medium and heavy-duty vehicles,
02:11:14.020 --> 02:11:17.120
I mean, diesel comes to mind.
02:11:17.120 --> 02:11:19.847
And so really, Commissioner
Guzman Aceves,
02:11:19.847 --> 02:11:23.280
are you speaking to
the air pollution burden
02:11:24.150 --> 02:11:27.090
from these vehicles that tend to be upon
02:11:27.090 --> 02:11:30.520
the low-income and
disadvantaged communities?
02:11:30.520 --> 02:11:35.520
And so if we prioritize medium
and heavy-duty vehicles,
02:11:36.280 --> 02:11:40.020
then we would be tackling
02:11:40.870 --> 02:11:44.190
that diesel exhaust burden,
02:11:44.190 --> 02:11:46.610
and the greenhouse
gas footprint, of course.
02:11:46.610 --> 02:11:48.410
Could be another issue.
02:11:48.410 --> 02:11:49.810
So in terms of that,
02:11:49.810 --> 02:11:54.323
then benefiting air
quality in these areas.
02:11:55.640 --> 02:11:58.550
Right, and given our
underspending there,
02:11:58.550 --> 02:12:02.093
it's clearly an area that's
in need of more innovation.
02:12:08.020 --> 02:12:10.260
I know that Hannon
has the final word
02:12:10.260 --> 02:12:12.030
since we don't have the benefit
02:12:12.924 --> 02:12:14.610
of visiting with him all the time,
02:12:14.610 --> 02:12:17.340
and I know he expressed some thoughts
02:12:17.340 --> 02:12:19.890
about different funding mechanisms.
02:12:19.890 --> 02:12:21.210
Any last thoughts
02:12:21.210 --> 02:12:23.360
about what we were
just discussing, Hannon?
02:12:24.400 --> 02:12:26.060
Yeah, thanks
for the opportunity.
02:12:26.060 --> 02:12:28.470
I'll just note, for any
funds you are inclined
02:12:28.470 --> 02:12:29.740
to flow through the Energy Commission
02:12:29.740 --> 02:12:32.130
or anything you choose
to do through the utilities,
02:12:32.130 --> 02:12:34.240
I think you can meet
a lot of the objectives
02:12:34.240 --> 02:12:35.920
that have been articulated today
02:12:35.920 --> 02:12:37.730
'cause you can
design that into it, right?
02:12:37.730 --> 02:12:38.897
So if you say,
02:12:38.897 --> 02:12:41.930
"We're really leaving
low-income communities behind,"
02:12:41.930 --> 02:12:43.107
whether it's flowed to
the Energy Commission
02:12:43.107 --> 02:12:46.720
and you put that string
on it or you do it internally,
02:12:46.720 --> 02:12:49.950
I think we can effectuate a
lot of outcomes wanna see.
02:12:49.950 --> 02:12:53.930
And I'll just say that the reason
we are where we are today
02:12:53.930 --> 02:12:56.190
is because we didn't do enough early on.
02:12:56.190 --> 02:12:59.430
Folks knew about transportation
emissions for decades,
02:12:59.430 --> 02:13:01.020
and we find ourselves in a condition
02:13:01.020 --> 02:13:03.880
where we've left low-income
communities behind.
02:13:03.880 --> 02:13:06.460
We're dealing with wildfires.
We're dealing with drought.
02:13:06.460 --> 02:13:09.130
We're dealing with
some really great things
02:13:09.130 --> 02:13:11.030
that are happening and
we're dealing with headwinds.
02:13:11.030 --> 02:13:15.770
And we're here because we
did some things for ourselves
02:13:15.770 --> 02:13:17.340
that we should have acted on earlier.
02:13:17.340 --> 02:13:19.130
And so now we are
in a very difficult point,
02:13:19.130 --> 02:13:21.840
and I just hope we're
committed to see this through
02:13:21.840 --> 02:13:24.680
and target these investments
on diesel emissions,
02:13:24.680 --> 02:13:28.240
on local air quality, seek
which create jobs through this,
02:13:28.240 --> 02:13:29.990
and to help low-income communities.
02:13:31.420 --> 02:13:33.300
And thanks for the opportunity today.
02:13:33.300 --> 02:13:35.103
Really good conversation.
02:13:38.890 --> 02:13:41.693
You are welcome any time.
02:13:43.200 --> 02:13:48.200
So I think we're gonna
turn to our public speakers.
02:13:49.870 --> 02:13:54.740
I think we have time for
two minutes per speaker.
02:13:54.740 --> 02:13:59.740
So I'm gonna turn it over to
the operator to open the lines
02:14:00.100 --> 02:14:02.560
for our public commenters.
Thank you.
02:14:02.560 --> 02:14:03.910
Thank you, as a reminder,
02:14:03.910 --> 02:14:05.360
if you wish to make a public comment,
02:14:05.360 --> 02:14:08.170
please unmute your phone, press *1,
02:14:08.170 --> 02:14:10.207
and slowly and clearly record your name
02:14:10.207 --> 02:14:11.860
and the organization.
02:14:11.860 --> 02:14:14.940
We will announce your name
in that order that you indicated
02:14:14.940 --> 02:14:17.030
that you want to make a public comment.
02:14:17.030 --> 02:14:18.730
If you wish to withdraw
your public comment,
02:14:18.730 --> 02:14:20.260
please press *2.
02:14:20.260 --> 02:14:21.093
One moment.
02:14:22.580 --> 02:14:25.360
Our first public comment
comes from Sam Houston,
02:14:25.360 --> 02:14:27.200
Union of Concerned Scientists.
02:14:27.200 --> 02:14:28.663
Sam, your line is open.
02:14:37.000 --> 02:14:37.833
Sam?
02:14:38.740 --> 02:14:40.620
Sam, your line is open.
02:14:40.620 --> 02:14:43.023
Oh, thank you so
much. Can you hear me now?
02:14:44.140 --> 02:14:44.977
Yes, we can.
02:14:46.070 --> 02:14:48.000
Wonderful. Thank you.
02:14:48.000 --> 02:14:49.610
Hello, President, Commissioners.
02:14:49.610 --> 02:14:53.430
I'm honored to be the
first person speaking here.
02:14:53.430 --> 02:14:57.490
I, first of all, really
appreciate the discussion,
02:14:57.490 --> 02:15:02.033
and these are the
question, and they're thorny.
02:15:03.987 --> 02:15:06.960
I think what I would like to lift up
02:15:06.960 --> 02:15:10.490
is some of the direction of conversation
02:15:10.490 --> 02:15:13.150
that was really sort
of a yes-and approach.
02:15:13.150 --> 02:15:17.200
Yes, we absolutely need
to move as fast as we can,
02:15:17.200 --> 02:15:18.880
and we need to protect ratepayers.
02:15:18.880 --> 02:15:23.880
I think some of the different
financing mechanisms
02:15:23.970 --> 02:15:27.290
that have been raised here
absolutely will help with that.
02:15:27.290 --> 02:15:29.610
I think sensible guardrails on programs
02:15:29.610 --> 02:15:30.990
will absolutely help with that,
02:15:30.990 --> 02:15:32.850
sort of standardizing things,
02:15:32.850 --> 02:15:37.670
like companies that are
on the Fortune 1000 list
02:15:37.670 --> 02:15:41.380
probably shouldn't be
first in line to participate
02:15:41.380 --> 02:15:44.460
in some sort of commercial
EV infrastructure program,
02:15:44.460 --> 02:15:45.513
things like that.
02:15:47.280 --> 02:15:49.360
We need those protections
for the ratepayers,
02:15:49.360 --> 02:15:51.050
but we desperately need
02:15:51.050 --> 02:15:53.370
transportation electrification programs,
02:15:53.370 --> 02:15:55.440
not just to meet the climate goals
02:15:55.440 --> 02:15:58.590
that were queued up so
well by presentations earlier,
02:15:58.590 --> 02:16:01.880
but really for the terrible
air quality burdens
02:16:01.880 --> 02:16:04.670
that many of our communities are facing.
02:16:04.670 --> 02:16:07.010
And so I wanted, to that point,
02:16:07.010 --> 02:16:09.850
uplift the discussion around
medium and heavy duty
02:16:09.850 --> 02:16:14.850
and really continuing to
break down barriers there.
02:16:14.960 --> 02:16:18.460
Obviously, even though
there are dollars available,
02:16:18.460 --> 02:16:19.870
the money's not going out the door,
02:16:19.870 --> 02:16:23.150
so continuing to push that
forward, and keeping in mind,
02:16:23.150 --> 02:16:25.800
I think it was Hannon who
said, there are some segments
02:16:25.800 --> 02:16:29.640
that we just may need
utility investment in
02:16:29.640 --> 02:16:31.340
longer than others.
02:16:31.340 --> 02:16:32.990
Some segments can be handed over
02:16:32.990 --> 02:16:34.623
to the private sector sooner,
02:16:35.790 --> 02:16:39.310
and I appreciated the
discussion on declining incentives.
02:16:39.310 --> 02:16:41.620
That may be appropriate
for some segments,
02:16:41.620 --> 02:16:43.844
but there may be other segments
02:16:43.844 --> 02:16:45.930
that really demand a fuller treatment
02:16:47.600 --> 02:16:48.940
to keep things moving forward.
02:16:48.940 --> 02:16:54.170
And in that spirit, I just
wanna note and caution
02:16:54.170 --> 02:16:57.960
against having too much of
this discussion in the abstract
02:16:57.960 --> 02:17:00.680
and really lift up the
parts of the discussion
02:17:00.680 --> 02:17:03.423
that were talking about
specific segments.
02:17:04.290 --> 02:17:07.960
I think to have a transportation
electrification framework,
02:17:07.960 --> 02:17:09.990
which will be wonderful when we have it,
02:17:09.990 --> 02:17:12.060
I've been working on
that proceeding for a while,
02:17:12.060 --> 02:17:17.031
I think to the extent different segments
02:17:17.031 --> 02:17:18.470
can be uplifted differently
02:17:18.470 --> 02:17:21.320
and we can acknowledge
where there may need to be
02:17:21.320 --> 02:17:24.940
more utility role behind the meter,
02:17:24.940 --> 02:17:28.010
I think that the more concrete we can be
02:17:28.010 --> 02:17:31.120
when we're having those
discussions in specific segments,
02:17:31.120 --> 02:17:33.870
I think the more productive it will be.
02:17:33.870 --> 02:17:34.963
Thank you so much.
02:17:36.550 --> 02:17:38.853
Thanks very much. Next caller.
02:17:39.970 --> 02:17:41.760
Operator, next caller.
02:17:41.760 --> 02:17:43.100
Our next
public comment comes
02:17:43.100 --> 02:17:44.827
from Meredith Alexander, CALSTART.
02:17:44.827 --> 02:17:46.693
Meredith, your line is open.
02:17:48.390 --> 02:17:50.840
Hi, good
afternoon. Can you hear me?
02:17:52.120 --> 02:17:53.400
Yes.
02:17:53.400 --> 02:17:54.233
Okay, great.
02:17:54.233 --> 02:17:55.530
Hi, good afternoon, Commissioners,
02:17:55.530 --> 02:17:58.210
and happy to follow Sam Houston
02:17:59.100 --> 02:18:02.740
trying to condense today's
really important discussions
02:18:02.740 --> 02:18:06.330
and comments on a
lot of different topics.
02:18:06.330 --> 02:18:08.680
First, really appreciated the discussion
02:18:08.680 --> 02:18:10.540
about the importance of medium
02:18:10.540 --> 02:18:11.687
and heavy duty electrification
02:18:11.687 --> 02:18:13.933
and how it's different
from other things.
02:18:14.840 --> 02:18:18.470
I do think this discussion
today would have benefited
02:18:18.470 --> 02:18:20.420
from hearing directly from ARB
02:18:20.420 --> 02:18:23.750
about their proposed fleet
rule and the timelines in there
02:18:23.750 --> 02:18:25.110
and the volumes of vehicles
02:18:25.110 --> 02:18:28.130
because I think what a
lot of people are wondering
02:18:28.130 --> 02:18:30.390
in that regulation is,
02:18:30.390 --> 02:18:33.560
are the utilities
staffed up appropriately
02:18:33.560 --> 02:18:35.430
and ready to build
out the infrastructure
02:18:35.430 --> 02:18:37.420
that will be needed on the timeline
02:18:37.420 --> 02:18:39.590
that is required under the rulemaking,
02:18:39.590 --> 02:18:42.690
which is starting in 2025,
02:18:42.690 --> 02:18:45.467
that fleets will be required
to buy electric medium
02:18:45.467 --> 02:18:49.430
and heavy-duty or
zero-emission vehicles?
02:18:49.430 --> 02:18:52.600
And so it's really an
issue of forecasting
02:18:52.600 --> 02:18:56.260
that magnitude, the
timing, and the location,
02:18:56.260 --> 02:18:57.550
so it's really helpful to hear
02:18:57.550 --> 02:19:00.270
that there is data being shared
02:19:00.270 --> 02:19:01.773
about the locations of fleets.
02:19:02.870 --> 02:19:05.320
I am guessing that that
cannot be made public,
02:19:05.320 --> 02:19:09.040
but I think having a joint
agency workshop that discusses
02:19:09.040 --> 02:19:10.810
how this data is going to be shared
02:19:10.810 --> 02:19:13.090
and how the CPUC can ensure
02:19:13.090 --> 02:19:16.050
that the utilities can
respond to fleets needs,
02:19:16.050 --> 02:19:19.510
because it's no longer just
about them installing a charger
02:19:19.510 --> 02:19:23.790
for the handful of electric
vehicles they're buying now.
02:19:23.790 --> 02:19:26.930
It's going to be in the
hundreds at different locations.
02:19:26.930 --> 02:19:29.680
And I've heard from one
fleet in Southern California
02:19:29.680 --> 02:19:32.670
that they think they need
84 megawatts of capacity
02:19:32.670 --> 02:19:33.737
to serve their fleet,
02:19:33.737 --> 02:19:38.160
(chuckles) so just wanting
to put that in this discussion.
02:19:38.160 --> 02:19:40.130
And also on the financing piece,
02:19:40.130 --> 02:19:42.430
I think that is a really
important discussion.
02:19:42.430 --> 02:19:43.510
I wanted to highlight something
02:19:43.510 --> 02:19:45.820
that was actually filed by Edison,
02:19:45.820 --> 02:19:47.510
which was a proposal that CALSTART
02:19:47.510 --> 02:19:52.320
and NRDC has been working
on, to allow fleets to borrow
02:19:53.640 --> 02:19:56.470
to have a state-backed
financing program run
02:19:56.470 --> 02:19:59.100
through the treasurer's
office that is in part based
02:19:59.100 --> 02:20:02.720
on the fleet future
revenue from LCFS credits.
02:20:02.720 --> 02:20:03.820
We were really excited
02:20:03.820 --> 02:20:07.800
to see Edison file that
as a funded program,
02:20:07.800 --> 02:20:10.010
send it through their
LCFS hold back funds,
02:20:10.010 --> 02:20:13.203
that would be aimed at
medium and heavy duty fleets.
02:20:15.110 --> 02:20:17.930
And I think the declining incentive
02:20:17.930 --> 02:20:19.330
could also be a really good idea
02:20:19.330 --> 02:20:21.030
for public light duty charging.
02:20:21.030 --> 02:20:23.720
I just wanted to highlight
for medium and heavy duty,
02:20:23.720 --> 02:20:26.750
it wouldn't necessarily
work as an incentive
02:20:26.750 --> 02:20:29.820
for early action
because not all vehicles
02:20:29.820 --> 02:20:32.840
that are needed to be purchased
are actually available today
02:20:32.840 --> 02:20:35.770
or will be available
on the same timeline.
02:20:35.770 --> 02:20:38.150
Thanks so much for the
great discussion today
02:20:38.150 --> 02:20:40.100
and thanks for considering my comments.
02:20:42.260 --> 02:20:44.620
Thanks, Meredith.
Operator, next caller.
02:20:44.620 --> 02:20:45.960
Reminder that we have,
02:20:45.960 --> 02:20:47.880
because of the number of commenters,
02:20:47.880 --> 02:20:49.730
please limit yourself to two minutes.
02:20:50.950 --> 02:20:51.783
Thank you.
02:20:51.783 --> 02:20:54.230
Our next public comment
comes from Eric Borden.
02:20:54.230 --> 02:20:55.793
Eric, your line is open.
02:20:57.490 --> 02:20:58.793
Hi, can you hear me?
02:21:00.530 --> 02:21:01.363
Yes, we can.
02:21:02.310 --> 02:21:05.570
Great, this Eric Borden
representing TURN.
02:21:05.570 --> 02:21:07.680
Thank you all for the
excellent discussion.
02:21:07.680 --> 02:21:10.510
I think you covered a lot
of really important topics,
02:21:10.510 --> 02:21:13.440
many of which I'm going
to again reiterate now,
02:21:13.440 --> 02:21:16.240
but I think they are really important.
02:21:16.240 --> 02:21:18.700
So TURN is a strong
supporter of state goals
02:21:18.700 --> 02:21:19.830
when it comes to EV adoption
02:21:19.830 --> 02:21:23.490
because these promise
significant benefits to ratepayers
02:21:23.490 --> 02:21:27.870
from a financial, GHG emission,
and pollution perspective.
02:21:27.870 --> 02:21:31.530
But, as was mentioned,
we need to take a step back
02:21:31.530 --> 02:21:33.960
and recognize that we are
on an unsustainable path
02:21:33.960 --> 02:21:36.470
when it comes to
electric rates in the state,
02:21:36.470 --> 02:21:38.840
particularly for the large IOUs.
02:21:38.840 --> 02:21:42.890
So from an affordability
perspective, this is problematic
02:21:42.890 --> 02:21:45.290
because customers are
being forced to devote a larger
02:21:45.290 --> 02:21:49.380
and larger share of their limited
and unpredictable incomes
02:21:49.380 --> 02:21:50.813
to essential energy service.
02:21:51.720 --> 02:21:54.000
But the path we are on
is also not sustainable
02:21:54.000 --> 02:21:56.130
from a climate change perspective
02:21:56.130 --> 02:21:58.120
if we care about
electrifying everything.
02:21:58.120 --> 02:22:00.020
So, for example,
02:22:00.020 --> 02:22:04.730
if PG&E gets the approximately
25% electric rate increase
02:22:04.730 --> 02:22:08.370
it's requesting in the CRC
on top of what is already one
02:22:08.370 --> 02:22:10.850
of the highest electric
rates in the nation,
02:22:10.850 --> 02:22:13.313
what does that mean for EV adoption?
02:22:14.330 --> 02:22:16.010
Care rates, low-income care rates,
02:22:16.010 --> 02:22:18.010
will go up by the same percentage.
02:22:18.010 --> 02:22:21.150
What does that mean
for equitable EV adoption?
02:22:21.150 --> 02:22:23.350
Could that be more, at
least equally important,
02:22:23.350 --> 02:22:25.360
than the amount of
ratepayers subsidy provided
02:22:25.360 --> 02:22:29.080
for behind-the-meter infrastructure?
02:22:29.080 --> 02:22:32.740
In my work for TURN, I see
time and again that the utilities
02:22:32.740 --> 02:22:34.420
often present an implicit trade-off
02:22:34.420 --> 02:22:37.907
to the Commission in their
proposals, where they say,
02:22:37.907 --> 02:22:41.670
"Well, we cannot have
safety and affordability,"
02:22:41.670 --> 02:22:43.810
or, "We cannot have
climate change mitigation
02:22:43.810 --> 02:22:46.220
and, once again, affordability."
02:22:46.220 --> 02:22:49.580
We find time and again that
this is really a false binary.
02:22:49.580 --> 02:22:52.013
We urge decision
makers not to fall for it.
02:22:53.570 --> 02:22:57.600
As was mentioned, the
recent passage of AB-41
02:22:57.600 --> 02:22:59.860
really put a clear marker in the stand
02:22:59.860 --> 02:23:01.740
for where to focus ratepayer subsidies
02:23:01.740 --> 02:23:03.730
on the utility side of the meter,
02:23:03.730 --> 02:23:06.150
all of which will come
on top of the 1.8 billion
02:23:06.150 --> 02:23:09.200
already authorized
for EV infrastructure.
02:23:09.200 --> 02:23:12.130
So if EVs come down in price
and charging station companies
02:23:12.130 --> 02:23:14.420
and automakers become more established
02:23:14.420 --> 02:23:16.700
to guide the build
out of infrastructure,
02:23:16.700 --> 02:23:20.080
we urge the Commission to
start now and to begin the process
02:23:20.080 --> 02:23:24.600
of ramping down customer
side subsidies first,
02:23:24.600 --> 02:23:27.300
focusing on, and
these are all high level,
02:23:27.300 --> 02:23:30.810
but first focus on utility
ownership of customer assets,
02:23:30.810 --> 02:23:33.820
should be the exception
and not the rule,
02:23:33.820 --> 02:23:37.027
as the recent CPUC white
paper on affordability states,
02:23:37.027 --> 02:23:38.930
"As California continues transitioning
02:23:38.930 --> 02:23:42.180
to a more robust distributed
energy resources marketplace
02:23:42.180 --> 02:23:43.523
with greater deployment
of electric vehicles,
02:23:43.523 --> 02:23:47.410
It will be essential to
employ aggressive actions
02:23:47.410 --> 02:23:50.430
to minimize growth
and utility rate base."
02:23:50.430 --> 02:23:52.010
Second, we must stop accepting
02:23:52.010 --> 02:23:55.870
a cookie cutter make-ready
approach where all vehicles
02:23:55.870 --> 02:23:59.640
and location segments
get a near 100% subsidy.
02:23:59.640 --> 02:24:02.173
This was echoed in the
comments that Hannon made.
02:24:04.180 --> 02:24:06.890
On the benefits side of the equation,
02:24:06.890 --> 02:24:10.100
I think we also need to
recognize infrastructure targets
02:24:10.100 --> 02:24:12.700
are secondary to the
state's primary goals,
02:24:12.700 --> 02:24:15.583
which are around emissions reduction.
02:24:16.570 --> 02:24:18.100
Not all charging ports
02:24:18.100 --> 02:24:21.033
and spending to get those
ports are created equal.
02:24:22.000 --> 02:24:25.540
And unfortunately I don't
have time to get into this here,
02:24:25.540 --> 02:24:30.540
but the AB-2127 report
number was mentioned a lot.
02:24:31.060 --> 02:24:35.220
I really appreciate the
important work that the CEC does
02:24:35.220 --> 02:24:37.710
and the really quality
work that they do,
02:24:37.710 --> 02:24:40.390
but the fact is that there is
a massive range of chargers
02:24:40.390 --> 02:24:43.090
that can reasonably support EV goals,
02:24:43.090 --> 02:24:46.530
and we think that the
1.2 million metric is based
02:24:46.530 --> 02:24:49.540
on very conservative assumptions,
02:24:49.540 --> 02:24:52.490
and we outlined this in
our comments to the CEC.
02:24:52.490 --> 02:24:55.040
The other thing is that
chargers built today
02:24:55.040 --> 02:24:57.320
are expected to last for 10 years,
02:24:57.320 --> 02:25:00.310
so I'm not really sure
why that 2030 number
02:25:00.310 --> 02:25:01.863
should weigh too heavily on ratepayers
02:25:01.863 --> 02:25:04.220
when it comes to investments today.
02:25:04.220 --> 02:25:06.490
So thank you very much for
the opportunity to comment
02:25:06.490 --> 02:25:09.300
and TURN looks forward
to continue engaging
02:25:09.300 --> 02:25:10.920
with stakeholders and the Commission
02:25:10.920 --> 02:25:12.220
on these important issues.
02:25:13.810 --> 02:25:16.763
Thank you very much, Eric.
Operator, next caller, please.
02:25:23.630 --> 02:25:26.233
Operator, can you call
on the next caller, please?
02:25:32.020 --> 02:25:33.450
Yes, our
next comment comes
02:25:33.450 --> 02:25:34.750
from Matthew Rutherford.
02:25:34.750 --> 02:25:35.823
Your line is open.
02:25:38.060 --> 02:25:39.993
Good afternoon,
Commissioners, staff.
02:25:39.993 --> 02:25:40.826
My name is Matthew Rutherford.
02:25:40.826 --> 02:25:43.423
I'm a senior regulatory analyst
with Peninsula Clean Energy.
02:25:43.423 --> 02:25:45.610
I'm submitting this
comment today on behalf
02:25:45.610 --> 02:25:47.430
of the plenty CCAs that are impatient
02:25:47.430 --> 02:25:49.273
and travel where they are.
02:25:49.273 --> 02:25:50.930
CCAs are currently the default,
02:25:50.930 --> 02:25:53.480
most serving NVPs for more
than 11 million customers
02:25:53.480 --> 02:25:54.313
across the state,
02:25:54.313 --> 02:25:56.640
and we're quickly expanding
our customer programs,
02:25:56.640 --> 02:25:59.050
including for
transportation electrification.
02:25:59.050 --> 02:26:00.930
As the draft test recognizes,
02:26:00.930 --> 02:26:04.190
it's only appropriate that
the roles CCAs played to date
02:26:04.190 --> 02:26:06.130
and should play in
the future be included
02:26:06.130 --> 02:26:08.200
in TE policy discussions,
02:26:08.200 --> 02:26:10.340
especially when we were
discussing customer-facing,
02:26:10.340 --> 02:26:13.090
behind-the-meter questions,
and we must be recognized
02:26:13.090 --> 02:26:15.410
as critical partners in these efforts.
02:26:15.410 --> 02:26:17.630
The joint CCAs are offering
to partner with the state
02:26:17.630 --> 02:26:19.820
through the test process
to help ensure the success
02:26:19.820 --> 02:26:21.240
of our collective efforts.
02:26:21.240 --> 02:26:23.360
And what we suggest is
that the CCAs be permitted
02:26:23.360 --> 02:26:26.910
to serve as administrators of
TE programs of our own design,
02:26:26.910 --> 02:26:30.330
subject to the same oversight
by the CPUCs as the IOUs
02:26:30.330 --> 02:26:32.830
and available to all customers
in our service territories
02:26:32.830 --> 02:26:35.170
regardless of their generation provider.
02:26:35.170 --> 02:26:36.410
This would be paired with access
02:26:36.410 --> 02:26:38.160
to ratepayer funding like the IOUs,
02:26:38.160 --> 02:26:41.180
as our current TE programs
are hindered in scope and scale
02:26:41.180 --> 02:26:44.320
because they are dependent
upon generation revenue.
02:26:44.320 --> 02:26:46.720
Our programs today are
expanding access to TE
02:26:46.720 --> 02:26:48.600
while also controlling
costs through emphasis
02:26:48.600 --> 02:26:52.040
on local customer and
community-based design.
02:26:52.040 --> 02:26:53.930
We're rightsizing programs
so that they're consistent
02:26:53.930 --> 02:26:55.520
with the needs of the
customers and communities
02:26:55.520 --> 02:26:57.070
and targeting all customer classes,
02:26:57.070 --> 02:26:59.480
including via equity-driven programs
02:26:59.480 --> 02:27:02.147
so that none are left behind
during its critical transition,
02:27:02.147 --> 02:27:04.640
and we're applying these
priorities to a range of areas
02:27:04.640 --> 02:27:06.890
across light, medium,
and heavy duty sectors.
02:27:08.110 --> 02:27:10.640
We can encourage the CPUC to enable CCAs
02:27:10.640 --> 02:27:13.230
and service full core
administrators under the test
02:27:13.230 --> 02:27:14.980
to allow us to bring our
community relationships
02:27:14.980 --> 02:27:16.280
and local understanding to bear
02:27:16.280 --> 02:27:17.810
to help move all Californians
02:27:17.810 --> 02:27:20.780
towards an electrified
transportation future.
02:27:20.780 --> 02:27:22.630
Thank you very much for
the opportunity to comment,
02:27:22.630 --> 02:27:24.630
and we look forward to engaging further.
02:27:26.580 --> 02:27:29.990
Thank you very much.
Operator, the next call, please.
02:27:29.990 --> 02:27:31.000
Our next public comment
02:27:31.000 --> 02:27:33.570
comes from Suncheth Bhat from PG&E.
02:27:33.570 --> 02:27:35.063
Suncheth, your line is open.
02:27:36.150 --> 02:27:38.200
Thank you, good afternoon.
02:27:38.200 --> 02:27:39.660
This is Suncheth Bhat,
02:27:39.660 --> 02:27:42.810
director of clean energy
transportation at PG&E.
02:27:42.810 --> 02:27:44.517
Thanks for the opportunity
to make some comments,
02:27:44.517 --> 02:27:47.530
and I really appreciate
the discussion today.
02:27:47.530 --> 02:27:50.690
As the fuel provider for
zero-emission vehicles,
02:27:50.690 --> 02:27:53.860
electric utilities across the
state have and will continue
02:27:53.860 --> 02:27:56.330
to play an important role
in ensuring our customers
02:27:56.330 --> 02:27:58.380
can electrify their
transportation needs.
02:27:59.530 --> 02:28:01.720
TE offers a rare win-win opportunity
02:28:01.720 --> 02:28:04.070
to decrease greenhouse gas emissions
02:28:04.070 --> 02:28:06.920
while lowering electric
rates for utility customers
02:28:06.920 --> 02:28:11.320
via the increased
throughput of kWh on the grid.
02:28:11.320 --> 02:28:15.440
In fact, PG&E's goal for TE is
to both reduce GHG emissions
02:28:15.440 --> 02:28:18.410
and drive downward pressure on rates.
02:28:18.410 --> 02:28:21.120
As stated in CPUC's white paper,
02:28:21.120 --> 02:28:25.310
IOU investments and TE may
place downward pressure on rates,
02:28:25.310 --> 02:28:28.540
which would make it even
more affordable to operate an EV
02:28:28.540 --> 02:28:32.370
and with lower rates for
customers not utilizing EVs.
02:28:32.370 --> 02:28:35.170
We've heard about vehicle
and infrastructure goals today.
02:28:35.170 --> 02:28:38.260
With 2030 in sight, as a state we're at
02:28:38.260 --> 02:28:40.910
about 12 1/2% of the
light duty vehicle goal
02:28:43.143 --> 02:28:46.650
compared to the projections in
CARB's Mobile Source Strategy
02:28:46.650 --> 02:28:49.370
and only at about 6% of the goal
02:28:49.370 --> 02:28:54.030
for the needed infrastructure
per the CEC's AB-2127 report.
02:28:54.030 --> 02:28:56.970
We have a long ways to
go to meet the state goals,
02:28:56.970 --> 02:28:59.700
especially on infrastructure
in light of the complexity
02:28:59.700 --> 02:29:01.710
and time it takes to do so.
02:29:01.710 --> 02:29:03.540
As Hannon noted in his presentation,
02:29:03.540 --> 02:29:06.533
it will be an all-hands-on-deck effort.
02:29:07.710 --> 02:29:09.230
Utilities have experienced building
02:29:09.230 --> 02:29:12.330
customer side infrastructure
and can build at scale.
02:29:12.330 --> 02:29:15.480
In PG&E's case, we have
built nearly 5,000 ports
02:29:15.480 --> 02:29:19.190
at about 200 locations across 66 cities.
02:29:19.190 --> 02:29:22.840
PG&E can also continue
to help reach customers
02:29:22.840 --> 02:29:25.970
that are in hard-to-reach
communities in this space.
02:29:25.970 --> 02:29:28.790
PG&E has recently completed
02:29:28.790 --> 02:29:31.650
our light duty multi-unit
dwelling and workplace program,
02:29:31.650 --> 02:29:33.690
installing almost 40% of the ports
02:29:33.690 --> 02:29:35.750
in disadvantaged communities.
02:29:35.750 --> 02:29:36.583
It's important to note
02:29:36.583 --> 02:29:39.610
that this market is still nascent today,
02:29:39.610 --> 02:29:42.910
and utility programs help
provide a turnkey solution
02:29:42.910 --> 02:29:44.560
to willing customers who are ready
02:29:44.560 --> 02:29:46.810
but may not have the means.
02:29:46.810 --> 02:29:48.970
PG&E is committed to
support the state's goals
02:29:48.970 --> 02:29:51.600
and welcomes and looks
forward to continuing to collaborate
02:29:51.600 --> 02:29:53.780
with the state to develop this market
02:29:53.780 --> 02:29:55.850
and work through innovative solutions.
02:29:55.850 --> 02:29:56.683
Thank you.
02:29:58.430 --> 02:30:02.110
Thank you very much.
Operator, the next caller, please.
02:30:02.110 --> 02:30:03.390
Our next
public comment comes
02:30:03.390 --> 02:30:05.810
from Lillian Rafi, Clean Energy.
02:30:05.810 --> 02:30:07.403
Lillian, your line is open.
02:30:09.000 --> 02:30:10.060
Thank you.
02:30:10.060 --> 02:30:11.110
Thank you, Commissioners,
02:30:11.110 --> 02:30:13.453
and for the opportunity to comment.
02:30:14.380 --> 02:30:16.700
We very much support today's themes
02:30:16.700 --> 02:30:18.780
and Commissioner Rechtschaffen's remarks
02:30:18.780 --> 02:30:21.760
and the presenters on
customer affordability
02:30:21.760 --> 02:30:23.730
and how to think
about ratepayer dollars,
02:30:23.730 --> 02:30:26.210
how to reduce NOx and particulate matter
02:30:26.210 --> 02:30:28.900
in places like the San Joaquin Air Basin
02:30:28.900 --> 02:30:31.450
and meeting climate goals.
02:30:31.450 --> 02:30:33.880
So my comments are also focused
02:30:33.880 --> 02:30:36.480
on the medium and heavy duty sector,
02:30:36.480 --> 02:30:38.460
primarily the heavy duty.
02:30:38.460 --> 02:30:40.240
So for some background,
02:30:40.240 --> 02:30:41.790
Clean Energy is a
transportation company.
02:30:41.790 --> 02:30:45.770
We're in the private sector,
zero ratepayer dollars,
02:30:45.770 --> 02:30:48.680
focused on renewable natural gas,
02:30:48.680 --> 02:30:51.223
hydrogen, and the
electric vehicle space.
02:30:52.420 --> 02:30:55.250
But a big part of our
focus is helping trucks
02:30:55.250 --> 02:30:57.300
that are running on
compressed natural gas switch
02:30:57.300 --> 02:31:00.930
to 100% renewable natural gas, RNG.
02:31:00.930 --> 02:31:04.210
So these are trucks like
garbage trucks, refuge trucks,
02:31:04.210 --> 02:31:06.270
the ones that run the most miles
02:31:06.270 --> 02:31:08.240
and create the most pollution.
02:31:08.240 --> 02:31:12.119
And there was reference
to the San Joaquin Basin
02:31:12.119 --> 02:31:15.270
in I think the CEC's
presentation and the CPUC,
02:31:15.270 --> 02:31:17.670
the Energy Division staff presentation.
02:31:17.670 --> 02:31:20.100
And so these are areas that actually,
02:31:20.100 --> 02:31:23.100
as a private company, we're focused on.
02:31:23.100 --> 02:31:27.170
And so what happens now in
the marketplace for these trucks
02:31:27.170 --> 02:31:28.950
that are driving not 10 years from now
02:31:28.950 --> 02:31:31.270
when the landscape
looks to be very different,
02:31:31.270 --> 02:31:35.470
but right now for those
driving to ports and idling.
02:31:35.470 --> 02:31:36.303
If you look around,
02:31:36.303 --> 02:31:38.590
you don't see a good
electric truck option,
02:31:38.590 --> 02:31:39.670
but you still have diesel,
02:31:39.670 --> 02:31:42.460
so that'll just be the
default that you turn to.
02:31:42.460 --> 02:31:44.330
And so those emissions are very harmful,
02:31:44.330 --> 02:31:46.220
and that's a lot of what we're seeing.
02:31:46.220 --> 02:31:51.220
And so our focus is just
looking at other technologies
02:31:51.370 --> 02:31:53.730
that exist for today that can be used
02:31:53.730 --> 02:31:57.210
to help with air quality goals.
02:31:57.210 --> 02:32:01.303
For example, the
orangy-fueled heavy-duty truck,
02:32:02.210 --> 02:32:04.760
looking at CARB pathways will result
02:32:04.760 --> 02:32:07.110
in negative carbon intensity.
02:32:07.110 --> 02:32:10.500
For example, a garbage
truck that actually use fuel
02:32:10.500 --> 02:32:13.090
from the garbage landfill,
02:32:13.090 --> 02:32:17.683
they capture the
natural gas, convert it,
02:32:18.870 --> 02:32:23.058
same with trucks that use
captured methane from dairy farms.
02:32:23.058 --> 02:32:26.570
(electronic bell ringing)
So in regards to comments,
02:32:26.570 --> 02:32:27.810
okay, so I'll wrap up.
Can you please
02:32:27.810 --> 02:32:30.687
In regard to comments on-
wrap it up, please?
02:32:30.687 --> 02:32:33.770
Oh, using the
best ratepayer dollars,
02:32:33.770 --> 02:32:35.150
one thing we want to emphasize
02:32:35.150 --> 02:32:38.150
is electric vehicles
are part of the solution,
02:32:38.150 --> 02:32:40.177
but other technology is out there
02:32:40.177 --> 02:32:41.880
and other companies are working
02:32:41.880 --> 02:32:44.120
to address air quality goals.
02:32:44.120 --> 02:32:48.870
And so in sum, in efforts to electrify,
02:32:48.870 --> 02:32:51.160
what we want to emphasize
is just not to lose sight
02:32:51.160 --> 02:32:56.022
of technology that is
available today and that results
02:32:56.022 --> 02:32:59.970
in negative carbon intensity
02:32:59.970 --> 02:33:03.210
and helping convert fleet from diesel
02:33:03.210 --> 02:33:07.820
to other types of fuel source
that reach our overall goals
02:33:07.820 --> 02:33:12.820
in helping air quality and
specifically in these air basins.
02:33:13.420 --> 02:33:14.963
So, and then finally.
02:33:16.150 --> 02:33:18.347
Lillian, thank you very much.
02:33:18.347 --> 02:33:21.780
And we've gotta move
on to the next caller.
02:33:21.780 --> 02:33:24.330
Operator, next caller, please.
02:33:24.330 --> 02:33:25.580
Our next
public comment comes
02:33:25.580 --> 02:33:26.870
from Miles Muller.
02:33:26.870 --> 02:33:27.993
Your line is open.
02:33:30.180 --> 02:33:33.240
Good afternoon, Commissioners.
Miles Muller with NRDC.
02:33:33.240 --> 02:33:35.490
Thanks for the engaging discussion today
02:33:35.490 --> 02:33:37.510
and the opportunity to comment.
02:33:37.510 --> 02:33:39.760
I wanna start by making the observation
02:33:39.760 --> 02:33:43.060
that I think everyone is
on the same page here.
02:33:43.060 --> 02:33:44.840
We all agree on the
need to figure out ways
02:33:44.840 --> 02:33:47.370
to ensure electricity remains affordable
02:33:47.370 --> 02:33:50.293
for utility customers in
general and as a fuel source,
02:33:51.300 --> 02:33:52.900
but how we do that is important.
02:33:53.795 --> 02:33:56.150
So Commissioner Guzman Aceves' point,
02:33:56.150 --> 02:33:57.610
electricity bills are aggressive
02:33:57.610 --> 02:34:01.060
and we do need to ensure
affordability of electricity
02:34:01.060 --> 02:34:03.580
as a transportation fuel long term,
02:34:03.580 --> 02:34:06.280
but that's exactly why we
shouldn't be pulling back
02:34:06.280 --> 02:34:08.440
or discontinuing support for EV programs
02:34:08.440 --> 02:34:10.320
that can put downward pressure on rates
02:34:10.320 --> 02:34:12.810
and help address
those affordability issues.
02:34:12.810 --> 02:34:14.550
Existing data shows that EV charging
02:34:14.550 --> 02:34:16.700
has already put
downward pressure on rates
02:34:16.700 --> 02:34:18.980
to the benefit of all utility customers,
02:34:18.980 --> 02:34:21.763
to the tune of nearly
$1 billion in 2012.
02:34:22.640 --> 02:34:24.330
Further, the discussion today mentioned
02:34:24.330 --> 02:34:27.150
the CPUCs white paper
from earlier in the year
02:34:27.150 --> 02:34:30.980
which found that transportation
electrification programs
02:34:30.980 --> 02:34:33.770
were not a significant source
of upward pressure on rates
02:34:33.770 --> 02:34:36.380
and are not expected to contribute
02:34:36.380 --> 02:34:38.600
to significant rate
growth in the near term
02:34:38.600 --> 02:34:40.160
with the main sources of upward pressure
02:34:40.160 --> 02:34:43.070
on rates being wildfires and them.
02:34:43.070 --> 02:34:44.270
So downward pressure on rates
02:34:44.270 --> 02:34:47.180
from increased EV
adoption is a critical tool
02:34:47.180 --> 02:34:49.780
for mitigating these rate
increases in the future,
02:34:49.780 --> 02:34:53.510
and we shouldn't be discounting
or tossing this tool aside.
02:34:53.510 --> 02:34:57.000
California is currently
still far behind on a goal.
02:34:57.000 --> 02:35:00.310
Now is not the time to
discontinue support and go slower.
02:35:00.310 --> 02:35:03.890
The CEC's 2127 report highlights this,
02:35:03.890 --> 02:35:06.330
detailing just how
far behind California is
02:35:06.330 --> 02:35:07.840
on its infrastructure deployment goals
02:35:07.840 --> 02:35:10.210
and how continued utility support
02:35:10.210 --> 02:35:12.320
in addition to support
from other state agencies
02:35:12.320 --> 02:35:14.260
and the private sector is critical
02:35:14.260 --> 02:35:16.560
for meeting California's 2025
02:35:16.560 --> 02:35:19.513
and longterm climate,
air quality, and equity goal.
02:35:21.500 --> 02:35:22.720
So this is an all-hands-on-deck moment.
02:35:22.720 --> 02:35:26.310
It's important to not view
utility funding as competitive
02:35:26.310 --> 02:35:28.570
or substitutive with state funding
02:35:28.570 --> 02:35:31.450
rather than complimentary or additional.
02:35:31.450 --> 02:35:33.830
So in summary, utility investments
02:35:33.830 --> 02:35:36.830
and electrification are
critical for enabling the state
02:35:36.830 --> 02:35:38.640
to meet those goals as well as
02:35:38.640 --> 02:35:40.130
an affordability tool,
(electronic bell ringing)
02:35:40.130 --> 02:35:42.040
one which has the ability to
make rates more affordable
02:35:42.040 --> 02:35:44.800
for California utility customers
and help California realize
02:35:44.800 --> 02:35:46.710
a more equitable electrified future.
02:35:46.710 --> 02:35:47.543
Thank you.
02:35:48.830 --> 02:35:50.380
Thank you very much, Miles.
02:35:50.380 --> 02:35:53.320
We've got seven more
people in the queue,
02:35:53.320 --> 02:35:57.720
so hopefully folks can stay 10 minutes
02:35:57.720 --> 02:35:59.530
after the four o'clock hour
02:35:59.530 --> 02:36:02.640
so that we can hear
from all the public speaker.
02:36:02.640 --> 02:36:05.160
Operator, next caller, please.
02:36:05.160 --> 02:36:06.630
Our next
public comment comes
02:36:06.630 --> 02:36:08.400
from Claire Broome.
02:36:08.400 --> 02:36:09.483
Your line is open.
02:36:11.390 --> 02:36:13.230
Afternoon, Commissioners.
02:36:13.230 --> 02:36:18.090
This is Claire Broome
representing 350, Bay Area.
02:36:18.090 --> 02:36:22.230
I wanna speak to
light-duty vehicle planning,
02:36:22.230 --> 02:36:27.220
and I would appreciate it if
the speakers would clarify
02:36:27.220 --> 02:36:31.430
and differentiate
between behind the meter,
02:36:31.430 --> 02:36:35.820
which I assume means charging at home
02:36:36.740 --> 02:36:38.640
where overnight charging is possible
02:36:38.640 --> 02:36:42.193
versus on the road investments,
02:36:43.490 --> 02:36:46.740
where with fast chargers.
02:36:46.740 --> 02:36:51.740
Specifically consumer
reports found that 92%
02:36:52.150 --> 02:36:57.133
of owners of high-range
vehicles charge at home.
02:36:58.120 --> 02:37:01.470
And I realize the challenge
in reaching renters
02:37:01.470 --> 02:37:03.580
and multi-unit buildings,
02:37:03.580 --> 02:37:06.960
but I think when you ask
for greater transparency,
02:37:06.960 --> 02:37:10.050
it's very important to clarify
02:37:10.050 --> 02:37:13.580
what are Level 2 and
what are fast chargers.
02:37:13.580 --> 02:37:15.590
What permit overnight charging
02:37:15.590 --> 02:37:18.560
versus which are sort of the equivalent
02:37:18.560 --> 02:37:21.400
of an electric gas station.
02:37:21.400 --> 02:37:25.320
And the data suggest
that overnight charging
02:37:25.320 --> 02:37:30.011
and Level 2 chargers are
a better use of resources
02:37:30.011 --> 02:37:32.733
and also less burden
on the electric grid.
02:37:33.730 --> 02:37:37.140
The second point I wanna
make is I'm assuming
02:37:37.140 --> 02:37:41.310
that all of these funds
include incentives built in
02:37:41.310 --> 02:37:44.910
to align charging with the time
02:37:44.910 --> 02:37:47.560
of the grid's greatest need,
02:37:47.560 --> 02:37:50.730
i.e, that people
charge either at the day
02:37:50.730 --> 02:37:54.600
or overnight after peak hours.
02:37:54.600 --> 02:37:57.500
And I haven't really heard much
02:37:57.500 --> 02:37:59.550
to either of those two points,
02:37:59.550 --> 02:38:01.940
so I would put those forward
02:38:01.940 --> 02:38:06.240
so that our dollars can
be used best to accelerate
02:38:11.790 --> 02:38:13.570
transportation electrification.
02:38:13.570 --> 02:38:14.653
Thank you very much.
02:38:16.180 --> 02:38:19.650
Thanks very much.
Operator, next caller, please.
02:38:19.650 --> 02:38:21.510
Our next
caller is Michael Colvin.
02:38:21.510 --> 02:38:22.673
Your line is open.
02:38:25.400 --> 02:38:26.840
Yes. Hi, good
afternoon, Commissioners.
02:38:26.840 --> 02:38:27.810
My name is Michael Colvin
02:38:27.810 --> 02:38:29.580
on behalf of the
Environmental Defense Fund.
02:38:29.580 --> 02:38:31.313
I'd like to thank you for the
robust conversation today
02:38:31.313 --> 02:38:34.220
and for the opportunity
to make public comment.
02:38:34.220 --> 02:38:37.233
I'd like to offer up just a
couple of quick observations.
02:38:38.550 --> 02:38:40.030
First, I appreciate the discussion
02:38:40.030 --> 02:38:41.980
on what's the right role
at the ratepayer dollar
02:38:41.980 --> 02:38:44.940
versus public funds
and grants and loans.
02:38:44.940 --> 02:38:47.640
I think we need to take an
all-of-the-above strategy here
02:38:47.640 --> 02:38:49.560
and should recognize that
we're gonna need a mixture
02:38:49.560 --> 02:38:51.010
of all of them.
02:38:51.010 --> 02:38:53.650
I really appreciate Commissioner
Guzman Aceves' point
02:38:53.650 --> 02:38:56.670
about using ratepayer
funds to generate leverage.
02:38:56.670 --> 02:38:58.160
EBS did ask for just that
02:38:58.160 --> 02:39:00.070
in the clean energy
financing rulemaking,
02:39:00.070 --> 02:39:02.290
and we'd be happy to follow
up with Commissioner Shiroma
02:39:02.290 --> 02:39:05.470
as she prepares the next
phase of that proceeding.
02:39:05.470 --> 02:39:07.460
I also wanna acknowledge
that the Governor just signed
02:39:07.460 --> 02:39:10.470
Senate Bill 372 to create
financing opportunities
02:39:10.470 --> 02:39:12.350
for clean trucks and buses,
02:39:12.350 --> 02:39:14.490
and that bill encourages coordination
02:39:14.490 --> 02:39:18.370
with the treasurer's office
with on-bill utility programs,
02:39:18.370 --> 02:39:20.370
so I think there's an opportunity there.
02:39:22.130 --> 02:39:24.810
Second, I think we need
to take different approaches
02:39:24.810 --> 02:39:26.520
for each customer segment.
02:39:26.520 --> 02:39:28.440
The reasonableness
of utility investments
02:39:28.440 --> 02:39:30.000
to support passenger vehicles
02:39:30.000 --> 02:39:32.230
is going to be different
than public buses,
02:39:32.230 --> 02:39:33.990
which is different
than small truck fleets
02:39:33.990 --> 02:39:35.950
and large long haul rucks.
02:39:35.950 --> 02:39:38.260
Today's conversation was heavily focused
02:39:38.260 --> 02:39:41.620
on passenger vehicles, which
is only one part of the puzzle.
02:39:41.620 --> 02:39:44.140
We cannot just hope that
passenger infrastructure
02:39:44.140 --> 02:39:45.350
is gonna be deployed in places
02:39:45.350 --> 02:39:48.230
that will automatically
translate for trucks and buses.
02:39:48.230 --> 02:39:50.390
Normal public charger
deployments make sense
02:39:50.390 --> 02:39:52.190
for commercial needs for the trucks.
02:39:53.110 --> 02:39:55.330
So having parallel conversations here
02:39:55.330 --> 02:39:57.560
I think is going to be really critical,
02:39:57.560 --> 02:39:59.510
and we're gonna need the right balance.
02:40:00.560 --> 02:40:03.470
Last, if we're going to
electrify the economy,
02:40:03.470 --> 02:40:06.470
we need to recognize that
our electricity usage will go up
02:40:06.470 --> 02:40:09.050
and therefore electric bills will go up
02:40:09.050 --> 02:40:10.820
because we're using more.
02:40:10.820 --> 02:40:13.870
We should deploy
infrastructure at the rate
02:40:13.870 --> 02:40:18.330
at least so that the customer's
overall energy burden
02:40:18.330 --> 02:40:21.090
is gonna go down or remains
the same of where it's at today.
02:40:21.090 --> 02:40:23.520
We're shifting usage around.
02:40:23.520 --> 02:40:26.020
There are ways, to Commissioner
Guzman Aceves' point,
02:40:26.020 --> 02:40:27.740
to correct cost allocation,
02:40:27.740 --> 02:40:29.670
to prevent a regressive bill impact,
02:40:29.670 --> 02:40:31.050
and to further achieve
(electronic bell dinging)
02:40:31.050 --> 02:40:32.500
our bill affordability goals.
02:40:34.230 --> 02:40:37.480
And so just really
briefly, I would like to say,
02:40:37.480 --> 02:40:38.860
I think there are ways of mitigating
02:40:38.860 --> 02:40:40.550
the bill impact here to do this,
02:40:40.550 --> 02:40:42.840
and I think the height
be our future rulemaking
02:40:42.840 --> 02:40:44.327
is a place where we could do that,
02:40:44.327 --> 02:40:46.590
and we look forward
to participating there
02:40:46.590 --> 02:40:48.030
as much as we can.
02:40:48.030 --> 02:40:50.663
Thank you all so much for the
opportunity to make comment.
02:40:51.600 --> 02:40:55.150
Thank you, Michael.
Operator, next caller, please.
02:40:55.150 --> 02:40:56.390
Our next
public comment comes
02:40:56.390 --> 02:40:58.030
from Sara Rappeltool.
02:40:58.030 --> 02:40:59.163
Your line is open.
02:41:01.040 --> 02:41:02.410
Good afternoon,
Commissioners.
02:41:02.410 --> 02:41:03.970
Thanks for the opportunity to comment
02:41:03.970 --> 02:41:06.120
and to Energy Division for helping
02:41:06.120 --> 02:41:09.250
to put together TE
workshops two days in a row.
02:41:09.250 --> 02:41:12.970
My name is Sara Rafalson
and I lead public policy at EVgo.
02:41:12.970 --> 02:41:16.280
We have 300 fast charging
locations in California,
02:41:16.280 --> 02:41:19.700
which we largely site in
areas to enable access
02:41:19.700 --> 02:41:21.653
for those who don't
have charging at home,
02:41:21.653 --> 02:41:24.200
such as renters and apartment dwellers,
02:41:24.200 --> 02:41:27.870
and are also growing
rapidly in fleet electrification.
02:41:27.870 --> 02:41:30.390
So much of the focus
today was on programs,
02:41:30.390 --> 02:41:33.640
but I also just wanted to
emphasize that it's helpful
02:41:33.640 --> 02:41:37.150
for the Commission to continue
the conversation on process,
02:41:37.150 --> 02:41:38.420
which was a large focus
02:41:38.420 --> 02:41:42.610
of yesterday's Energy
Commission, CPUC giant workshop.
02:41:42.610 --> 02:41:45.730
Construction of a fast
charging station in California
02:41:45.730 --> 02:41:48.210
should only really
take four to eight weeks,
02:41:48.210 --> 02:41:51.130
but sometimes can take up to 18 months,
02:41:51.130 --> 02:41:52.330
and that's because of permitting,
02:41:52.330 --> 02:41:54.187
which of course is
more in GO-Biz as well,
02:41:54.187 --> 02:41:56.580
and as they've been
capably leading that up,
02:41:56.580 --> 02:41:58.180
but as well as you told the easements
02:41:58.180 --> 02:42:00.053
and other process-related issues.
02:42:00.990 --> 02:42:04.740
Commissioner Houck briefly
mentioned some timeline issues
02:42:04.740 --> 02:42:06.970
as it related to others topics
02:42:06.970 --> 02:42:08.130
that the Commission deals with,
02:42:08.130 --> 02:42:10.870
and I know Meredith from
CALSTARTS also mentioned
02:42:10.870 --> 02:42:14.260
that process and utility
staffing and resourcing
02:42:14.260 --> 02:42:17.310
is important to ensure
that the utilities are ready
02:42:17.310 --> 02:42:19.440
for the surge that will happen
02:42:19.440 --> 02:42:21.380
on the medium and heavy duty side,
02:42:21.380 --> 02:42:24.360
and I'd echo the same
on the light duty side.
02:42:24.360 --> 02:42:28.240
And last, I wanna echo comments
on rates affordability made
02:42:28.240 --> 02:42:30.940
by the other commenters
and the Commissioners,
02:42:30.940 --> 02:42:34.480
and also that long-term
rate design is an effective tool
02:42:34.480 --> 02:42:36.210
to attract private sector investment
02:42:36.210 --> 02:42:38.060
while also helping to make the decision
02:42:38.060 --> 02:42:40.043
from ICE to EV easier, thank you.
02:42:42.310 --> 02:42:43.620
Thank you very much, Sara.
02:42:43.620 --> 02:42:46.120
Operator, next caller, please.
02:42:46.120 --> 02:42:47.320
Our next
public comment comes
02:42:47.320 --> 02:42:48.340
from Robert Perry.
02:42:48.340 --> 02:42:49.493
Your line is open.
02:42:51.470 --> 02:42:53.500
Yes, hi. My
name's Robert Perry.
02:42:53.500 --> 02:42:56.750
I'm with Synergistic
Solutions Energy Consulting.
02:42:56.750 --> 02:42:58.390
I'd like to thank the panel
02:42:58.390 --> 02:43:01.000
for this very important conversation,
02:43:01.000 --> 02:43:03.720
and I'd like to generally endorse
02:43:03.720 --> 02:43:06.730
Deputy Director Rasool's
comments regarding the need
02:43:06.730 --> 02:43:10.340
to fully engage the private sector
02:43:10.340 --> 02:43:15.250
to both develop and finance
this type of infrastructures.
02:43:15.250 --> 02:43:17.990
I think it's important to see EVs
02:43:17.990 --> 02:43:20.800
not only as a load source when charging,
02:43:20.800 --> 02:43:24.900
but also as an important
distributed energy resource asset
02:43:24.900 --> 02:43:27.530
that will become even more important
02:43:27.530 --> 02:43:30.760
with the advent of
vehicle grid integration.
02:43:30.760 --> 02:43:33.070
Regarding the use of ratepayer funds,
02:43:33.070 --> 02:43:36.280
it's important that utilities
focus on what they do best,
02:43:36.280 --> 02:43:39.660
which is to incentivize
efficient energy flow
02:43:39.660 --> 02:43:42.450
to locations where it's needed most,
02:43:42.450 --> 02:43:45.860
whether it's at the utility
scale along transit corridors
02:43:45.860 --> 02:43:49.260
or at the distributed level
in remote and urban areas,
02:43:49.260 --> 02:43:52.340
which will require extensive development
02:43:52.340 --> 02:43:55.613
of distributed
generation in those areas.
02:43:58.120 --> 02:43:59.990
Transportation electrification policy
02:43:59.990 --> 02:44:02.570
should also seek to promote use cases
02:44:02.570 --> 02:44:04.223
that fit people's lives.
02:44:05.315 --> 02:44:07.640
EV owners that are employees
02:44:07.640 --> 02:44:10.380
should be able to go
to their place of work
02:44:10.380 --> 02:44:12.460
and charge during the day.
02:44:12.460 --> 02:44:15.410
Independent contractors that use EVs
02:44:15.410 --> 02:44:18.270
should be able to utilize that EV
02:44:18.270 --> 02:44:21.510
to fit their work environment
02:44:21.510 --> 02:44:25.480
if they're using
motorized tools and stuff.
02:44:25.480 --> 02:44:27.920
There should be
programs that incentivize
02:44:29.510 --> 02:44:30.840
that transition as well,
02:44:30.840 --> 02:44:34.190
which is a very high
source of emissions,
02:44:34.190 --> 02:44:37.340
as CARB has indicated.
02:44:37.340 --> 02:44:41.000
On the financing side, we
should really take a hard look
02:44:41.000 --> 02:44:43.610
at incorporating service models
02:44:43.610 --> 02:44:48.040
where people pay for the service
02:44:48.040 --> 02:44:51.730
of owning EVs, owning and operating EVs,
02:44:51.730 --> 02:44:54.230
and such models need to allow
02:44:54.230 --> 02:44:56.570
for a reasonable rate of return,
02:44:56.570 --> 02:44:59.750
but also the option
to purchase the asset
02:44:59.750 --> 02:45:02.064
after that return has been achieved.
02:45:02.064 --> 02:45:03.900
Finally, with regard
(electronic bell ringing)
02:45:03.900 --> 02:45:06.460
to disadvantaged communities,
02:45:06.460 --> 02:45:10.040
it should be important to
acknowledge that these communities
02:45:10.040 --> 02:45:13.370
are usually adjacent to industrial zones
02:45:13.370 --> 02:45:17.290
and that policies should
seek to combine those zones
02:45:17.290 --> 02:45:20.500
to where they can
mutually benefit each other.
02:45:20.500 --> 02:45:22.540
Thank you very much. Bye.
02:45:22.540 --> 02:45:24.190
Thank you very much, Robert.
02:45:24.190 --> 02:45:26.150
Operator, next caller, please.
02:45:26.150 --> 02:45:28.450
Our next public
comment comes from Zach Luken.
02:45:28.450 --> 02:45:30.023
Zach, your line is open.
02:45:31.790 --> 02:45:32.970
Hi, thank you, Zach Woogen
02:45:32.970 --> 02:45:35.760
with the Vehicle Grid
Integration Council, or VGIC.
02:45:35.760 --> 02:45:37.960
I wanna thank Commissioners and staff
02:45:37.960 --> 02:45:39.050
for holding this En Banc
02:45:39.050 --> 02:45:42.650
and appreciate the opportunity
to provide public comment.
02:45:42.650 --> 02:45:45.060
We do appreciate the
focus today on medium
02:45:45.060 --> 02:45:47.227
and heavy-duty vehicles and
disadvantaged communities
02:45:47.227 --> 02:45:50.930
and are very much aligned in that focus.
02:45:50.930 --> 02:45:53.210
In considering TE
infrastructure deployment,
02:45:53.210 --> 02:45:54.640
we believe it's critical to think
02:45:54.640 --> 02:45:57.760
about the customer
perspective first and foremost.
02:45:57.760 --> 02:46:00.290
The goal is to make
it easier for customers
02:46:00.290 --> 02:46:02.110
and fleet managers to adopt EVs,
02:46:02.110 --> 02:46:04.260
which means not having to worry about
02:46:04.260 --> 02:46:07.610
some of these more
complicated installation
02:46:07.610 --> 02:46:09.420
and rate design considerations.
02:46:09.420 --> 02:46:11.670
A lot of our member
companies offer solutions
02:46:11.670 --> 02:46:14.290
that simplify this customer experience,
02:46:14.290 --> 02:46:16.060
and that's why we believe it's important
02:46:16.060 --> 02:46:19.113
to provide customers with a
menu of options to choose from,
02:46:20.214 --> 02:46:21.360
and then their automaker
02:46:21.360 --> 02:46:24.610
or EV service provider charging
company can actually manage
02:46:24.610 --> 02:46:27.760
that charging behind the
scenes to keep things seamless
02:46:27.760 --> 02:46:30.130
and simple from the
customer perspective.
02:46:30.130 --> 02:46:32.220
All that said, there's
one promising solution
02:46:32.220 --> 02:46:34.130
that we've been very
eager to see implemented
02:46:34.130 --> 02:46:36.390
called automated load management.
02:46:36.390 --> 02:46:39.730
PG&E's experience in the
EV Charge Network program
02:46:39.730 --> 02:46:43.920
has shown that this solution
can yield significant savings
02:46:43.920 --> 02:46:46.630
on utility side infrastructure costs.
02:46:46.630 --> 02:46:49.660
VGIC recently put forward
a proposal to incorporate this
02:46:49.660 --> 02:46:51.583
into the implementation of AB-41
02:46:51.583 --> 02:46:55.520
and the EV infrastructure
rules that passed last week.
02:46:55.520 --> 02:46:59.350
Our proposal was not
included in the resolution
02:46:59.350 --> 02:47:02.610
that was adopted last week,
but we do urge the Commission
02:47:02.610 --> 02:47:04.210
to prioritize this in other ways.
02:47:04.210 --> 02:47:07.360
For instance, it could be done
through a renewed emphasis
02:47:07.360 --> 02:47:11.820
on implementing the SB-676
VGI strategies decision
02:47:11.820 --> 02:47:13.370
from last December.
02:47:13.370 --> 02:47:15.360
In addition to automated
load management,
02:47:15.360 --> 02:47:17.950
we believe that other vehicle
grid integration solutions
02:47:17.950 --> 02:47:20.170
can be very cost-effective options
02:47:20.170 --> 02:47:22.040
for a range of grid services.
02:47:22.040 --> 02:47:25.050
Since the capital costs are
largely embedded in the vehicle,
02:47:25.050 --> 02:47:27.860
that cost for the battery
was already bought down
02:47:27.860 --> 02:47:29.130
by the customers.
02:47:29.130 --> 02:47:32.740
So, for example, the
Commission could prioritize VGI
02:47:32.740 --> 02:47:35.350
as a way to resolve
emergency reliability
02:47:35.350 --> 02:47:36.183
at a much lower cost
02:47:36.183 --> 02:47:39.430
than building new
supply side infrastructure.
02:47:39.430 --> 02:47:41.370
The recently staffed,
(electronic bell ringing)
02:47:41.370 --> 02:47:43.660
the recent staff concept
proposal introduced
02:47:43.660 --> 02:47:45.730
the EDBG aggregation pilot,
02:47:45.730 --> 02:47:47.200
which would be a step toward this.
02:47:47.200 --> 02:47:50.520
Another example would be
the use of EVs for resiliency
02:47:50.520 --> 02:47:53.770
and backup power during the
public safety power shutoffs,
02:47:53.770 --> 02:47:56.900
which could be cost competitive
with traditional solutions
02:47:56.900 --> 02:47:59.100
like installing a new backup generator.
02:47:59.100 --> 02:48:01.450
Finally, it's worth
noting that a recent study
02:48:01.450 --> 02:48:02.627
on managed charging showed that-
02:48:02.627 --> 02:48:04.800
Zachary, can
you wrap up please.
02:48:04.800 --> 02:48:07.873
Zach, your time is expired.
02:48:09.000 --> 02:48:10.670
Absolutely,
a critical factor
02:48:10.670 --> 02:48:12.280
in reducing transmission that were cost.
02:48:12.280 --> 02:48:14.800
That was in the preferred system plan
02:48:14.800 --> 02:48:15.840
and the IRP proceeding.
02:48:15.840 --> 02:48:17.190
And with that, I'll
conclude my comments,
02:48:17.190 --> 02:48:18.810
and we look forward
to further collaboration
02:48:18.810 --> 02:48:21.360
with Commissioners and staff, thank you.
02:48:21.360 --> 02:48:24.410
Thank you, Zach. Next
caller, please, operator.
02:48:24.410 --> 02:48:26.810
Our next public
comment comes from Shiba Bamit.
02:48:26.810 --> 02:48:28.343
Shiba, your line is open.
02:48:30.820 --> 02:48:34.730
Oh, hi there. I hope
you guys can hear me.
02:48:34.730 --> 02:48:38.320
Thank you Commissioners
for giving me this opportunity.
02:48:38.320 --> 02:48:40.800
I represent SignWatch,
02:48:40.800 --> 02:48:43.030
an innovative power electronics company
02:48:44.060 --> 02:48:46.650
that is developing the next generation
02:48:46.650 --> 02:48:48.930
of electric vehicle platform
02:48:48.930 --> 02:48:52.220
that also integrates
the entire infrastructure
02:48:52.220 --> 02:48:55.550
of electric vehicles
into the electric vehicle,
02:48:55.550 --> 02:48:58.860
so that changes the...
02:49:05.210 --> 02:49:07.350
Can you hear me? I'm
sorry, can you hear me?
02:49:07.350 --> 02:49:11.193
Yes, we can hear
you. We can hear you.
02:49:12.710 --> 02:49:15.040
You were indistinct for a
little bit, but we can hear your.
02:49:15.040 --> 02:49:16.550
Please go ahead.
02:49:16.550 --> 02:49:21.060
Okay, so what
we are trying to do is,
02:49:21.060 --> 02:49:24.000
so seems like, I mean,
02:49:24.000 --> 02:49:28.340
I was on the workshop with you yesterday
02:49:28.340 --> 02:49:32.820
and I'm going to repeat a couple
of an anecdotal commentary
02:49:32.820 --> 02:49:34.433
that came out of that workshop.
02:49:35.290 --> 02:49:38.167
The gentleman from
SMUD, he basically said,
02:49:38.167 --> 02:49:40.220
"We have a conundrum here.
02:49:40.220 --> 02:49:42.363
We have to do the decarbonization,
02:49:43.320 --> 02:49:47.090
transportation electrification,
yet the rates are going up.
02:49:47.090 --> 02:49:49.910
There's just no two ways about it."
02:49:49.910 --> 02:49:52.130
It's almost seems like
an it's an unsustainable
02:49:52.130 --> 02:49:54.570
and a non-scalable platform.
02:49:54.570 --> 02:49:57.460
We also heard Ford Motor Company
02:49:57.460 --> 02:50:00.983
with respect to the comments
that came from VGIC just now,
02:50:01.830 --> 02:50:06.193
with respect to the resiliency
requirement for PSPS events.
02:50:08.270 --> 02:50:11.510
Their vehicles are, by the way,
02:50:11.510 --> 02:50:14.410
I mean, if you know about
that, it's about $80,000,
02:50:14.410 --> 02:50:18.285
and it's going to be
almost an (indistinct)
02:50:18.285 --> 02:50:20.870
to ask the ratepayers to compensate
02:50:20.870 --> 02:50:23.210
for the additional hardware
that would be required
02:50:23.210 --> 02:50:25.950
for those vehicles to
become grid integrated
02:50:25.950 --> 02:50:27.400
or vehicle to home.
02:50:27.400 --> 02:50:31.850
So what we are
challenged with is essentially
02:50:31.850 --> 02:50:35.080
the requirement to
develop a new platform
02:50:35.080 --> 02:50:36.300
for electric vehicles.
02:50:36.300 --> 02:50:38.010
That's essentially what is going on.
02:50:38.010 --> 02:50:39.900
We are not by any means trying to say
02:50:39.900 --> 02:50:44.850
that we discard the old
platform that is existing today,
02:50:44.850 --> 02:50:47.310
but rather we are requesting California
02:50:47.310 --> 02:50:49.920
to double down on innovation
02:50:49.920 --> 02:50:51.330
and show to the market
(electronic bell ringing)
02:50:51.330 --> 02:50:54.130
that California is definitely interested
02:50:54.130 --> 02:50:57.050
in moving the needle
with respect to innovation
02:50:57.050 --> 02:51:00.840
and driving the next
generation of electric vehicles
02:51:00.840 --> 02:51:04.700
based on the Senate Bill 676,
02:51:04.700 --> 02:51:07.560
and we will be submitting more comments
02:51:07.560 --> 02:51:11.240
into both CPUC and CEC,
02:51:11.240 --> 02:51:13.940
and we hope to remain engaged with you.
02:51:13.940 --> 02:51:17.383
Thank you very much for
allowing us to make the comment.
02:51:18.830 --> 02:51:22.520
Thank you for your comment.
Operator, next caller, please.
02:51:22.520 --> 02:51:25.320
Our next public
comment comes from Mehdi Ganji.
02:51:25.320 --> 02:51:26.773
Mehdi, your line is open.
02:51:28.560 --> 02:51:29.410
Thanks, Commissioners,
02:51:29.410 --> 02:51:33.900
for providing me an opportunity
to submit the comments here.
02:51:33.900 --> 02:51:35.990
I'm representing
Willdan Energy Solution.
02:51:35.990 --> 02:51:39.590
We are energy efficiency
program managers
02:51:39.590 --> 02:51:43.850
for investors across California
02:51:43.850 --> 02:51:45.830
and also providing
local government cities
02:51:45.830 --> 02:51:47.713
with engineering services.
02:51:48.900 --> 02:51:50.267
All we know that in order
02:51:50.267 --> 02:51:54.480
for the state of California
to meet its 2035 goal
02:51:54.480 --> 02:51:57.930
to have almost eight
million EVs on the road,
02:51:57.930 --> 02:52:02.930
we have to install about
a million charging stations
02:52:03.010 --> 02:52:06.423
across the state, while
we way behind that.
02:52:07.355 --> 02:52:11.458
And we strongly recommend
the Commissioners and CPUC
02:52:11.458 --> 02:52:16.150
to encourage the IOU's
Transportation Electrification team
02:52:16.150 --> 02:52:19.510
to work with energy efficiency teams
02:52:19.510 --> 02:52:22.320
so they can collaboratively
work together
02:52:22.320 --> 02:52:24.800
with the energy efficiency
program management
02:52:24.800 --> 02:52:27.230
across the state to target
02:52:27.230 --> 02:52:30.580
and define potential
locations for charging stations
02:52:30.580 --> 02:52:34.263
and engage the adopters.
02:52:35.260 --> 02:52:38.220
Secondly, I wanna submit a comment,
02:52:38.220 --> 02:52:42.860
a personal comments
regarding the residential sectors.
02:52:42.860 --> 02:52:47.710
We understand that most
of their state funding goes
02:52:47.710 --> 02:52:50.000
towards the multi-family units;
02:52:50.000 --> 02:52:51.680
however, in the state of California,
02:52:51.680 --> 02:52:55.750
we have about 12
million single-family homes
02:52:55.750 --> 02:52:59.460
that half of those 12
million single-family homes
02:52:59.460 --> 02:53:02.660
were built before 1978,
02:53:02.660 --> 02:53:07.400
meaning half of those 12
million single-family homes,
02:53:07.400 --> 02:53:10.360
they do not have proper infrastructure
02:53:10.360 --> 02:53:13.010
or electric utility service
02:53:13.010 --> 02:53:16.560
to adopt any Level 2 charging station.
02:53:16.560 --> 02:53:19.680
So we tried to recommend
the state of California.
02:53:19.680 --> 02:53:21.692
You can see there's big spend
02:53:21.692 --> 02:53:24.980
and some sort of incentives or grants
02:53:24.980 --> 02:53:27.520
for the single-family homes units
02:53:27.520 --> 02:53:29.820
in the state of California
as well, thank you.
02:53:31.800 --> 02:53:33.290
Thank you very much.
02:53:33.290 --> 02:53:35.610
Operator, are there
any additional callers
02:53:35.610 --> 02:53:37.500
who wish to speak?
02:53:37.500 --> 02:53:40.000
I have no
additional public comments.
02:53:42.530 --> 02:53:46.420
Okay then, thank you to
all the folks who participated
02:53:46.420 --> 02:53:47.890
and who called in.
02:53:47.890 --> 02:53:50.257
Do any Commissioners have-
02:53:50.257 --> 02:53:51.323
Commissioner Rechtschaffen,
02:53:51.323 --> 02:53:53.393
just got a note from Nicole on a caller.
02:53:56.020 --> 02:53:56.853
Daniel Drazen.
02:53:58.480 --> 02:54:01.990
Okay, Operator, there
is an additional caller.
02:54:01.990 --> 02:54:04.070
Daniel Drazen.
02:54:04.070 --> 02:54:06.320
Give me
just a moment here.
02:54:06.320 --> 02:54:08.470
I just got someone in
my queue. One moment.
02:54:14.740 --> 02:54:16.040
Daniel, your line is open.
02:54:22.600 --> 02:54:24.363
Daniel, can you hear us?
02:54:27.920 --> 02:54:30.143
Hello, Daniel? Your line.
02:54:33.130 --> 02:54:34.860
It looks
like the line is open.
02:54:34.860 --> 02:54:37.670
If you need to, go ahead
and press *1 again, Daniel,
02:54:37.670 --> 02:54:39.470
and we'll put you back in the queue.
02:54:43.540 --> 02:54:44.440
Hello?
02:54:45.620 --> 02:54:50.120
Hello, we can hear
you. Is it Daniel?
02:54:50.120 --> 02:54:52.450
Oh no, this isn't
Daniel. This is Jocelyn.
02:54:52.450 --> 02:54:53.763
Might've been confused.
02:54:54.700 --> 02:54:55.533
Do you wish to make
02:54:55.533 --> 02:54:58.840
a public comment?
I am on the queue. Yes. Yes.
02:54:58.840 --> 02:55:01.710
Please go ahead if you wish
to make a public comment.
02:55:01.710 --> 02:55:02.700
Okay, thank you.
02:55:02.700 --> 02:55:03.880
Good afternoon, Commissioners.
02:55:03.880 --> 02:55:06.190
My name is Jocelyn
Meldal, and I'm an organizer
02:55:06.190 --> 02:55:09.370
with (indistinct) Community
to Environmental Justice.
02:55:09.370 --> 02:55:10.850
I'm here on behalf of communities
02:55:10.850 --> 02:55:12.340
that are heavily impacted
02:55:12.340 --> 02:55:14.680
and live along the
goods moving corridors,
02:55:14.680 --> 02:55:16.550
industries, and rail yards.
02:55:16.550 --> 02:55:18.140
And you're here to emphasize
02:55:18.140 --> 02:55:21.160
and urge the transition
to electrification,
02:55:21.160 --> 02:55:25.330
which we appreciate these
conversations at the moment,
02:55:25.330 --> 02:55:26.458
because now is the time
02:55:26.458 --> 02:55:29.000
that we should be going full throttle,
02:55:29.000 --> 02:55:30.640
making sure that also other agencies
02:55:30.640 --> 02:55:32.473
and stakeholders are following suit.
02:55:33.570 --> 02:55:35.250
And because our
lives are being cut short
02:55:35.250 --> 02:55:37.500
due to health impacts
that stem from diesel
02:55:37.500 --> 02:55:40.580
and PM2.5 heavy duty emissions.
02:55:40.580 --> 02:55:42.240
So these aren't just conversations
02:55:42.240 --> 02:55:45.150
about electrification,
infrastructure and costs,
02:55:45.150 --> 02:55:47.440
but these are also
conversations about the lives
02:55:47.440 --> 02:55:49.890
of our neighbors and our families.
02:55:49.890 --> 02:55:52.110
And we also wanna make
sure that our communities
02:55:52.110 --> 02:55:54.310
aren't being left behind
in these transition
02:55:55.260 --> 02:55:57.660
from heavy-duty, medium-duty
passenger vehicles.
02:55:58.970 --> 02:56:02.210
There should be efforts
to uplift different things
02:56:02.210 --> 02:56:04.850
that make this more
accessible, like reliable,
02:56:04.850 --> 02:56:07.110
a reliable easy market,
02:56:07.110 --> 02:56:09.520
continuing to push
for new emission trucks
02:56:09.520 --> 02:56:14.170
and increase access to
local energy resiliency efforts.
02:56:14.170 --> 02:56:16.610
And overall, there's still
a lot of work to be done
02:56:16.610 --> 02:56:17.953
for accessibility to EV.
02:56:18.980 --> 02:56:20.660
Taking a step back, right?
02:56:20.660 --> 02:56:21.493
In frontline communities,
02:56:21.493 --> 02:56:23.680
there's still a lot of work to be done,
02:56:23.680 --> 02:56:27.260
and an example can be the
incentive program that exists;
02:56:27.260 --> 02:56:30.050
however, many community
members on the ground, to this day,
02:56:30.050 --> 02:56:32.240
still don't know that
these programs exist.
02:56:32.240 --> 02:56:36.030
And so it's a big barrier
that we see on the ground,
02:56:36.030 --> 02:56:38.760
and I am concerned about how the CPUC
02:56:38.760 --> 02:56:42.260
is factoring in community
education and engagement
02:56:42.260 --> 02:56:43.640
in these condition plans,
02:56:43.640 --> 02:56:45.870
and I hope that this can be considered.
02:56:45.870 --> 02:56:48.660
And also the cost
burden of electrification,
02:56:48.660 --> 02:56:51.220
as we've mentioned, it
should not fall on ratepayers,
02:56:51.220 --> 02:56:52.940
and I'm relieved that
this is acknowledged
02:56:52.940 --> 02:56:55.510
and that there are other
options being explored.
02:56:55.510 --> 02:56:57.700
Too many families are counting on this.
02:56:57.700 --> 02:57:00.070
And we are still very
much in a pandemic,
02:57:00.070 --> 02:57:02.440
and we have folks
struggling with utility debt
02:57:02.440 --> 02:57:04.403
in this process of recovery.
02:57:05.587 --> 02:57:07.930
And so I truly appreciate
the discussions
02:57:07.930 --> 02:57:08.930
that are happening today,
02:57:08.930 --> 02:57:11.550
and I look forward to further engaging
02:57:11.550 --> 02:57:13.450
our community's needs in this process.
02:57:14.350 --> 02:57:15.183
Thank you.
02:57:16.680 --> 02:57:18.880
Thank you very much
for your comments.
02:57:18.880 --> 02:57:20.580
Operator, can you check one more time
02:57:20.580 --> 02:57:24.193
to make sure there's no one
in the queue waiting to speak?
02:57:25.140 --> 02:57:26.860
Yes, I
currently have no one.
02:57:26.860 --> 02:57:29.760
We had Daniel for a moment,
but he took himself out of it.
02:57:31.940 --> 02:57:34.380
But I currently don't have
any public comments.
02:57:34.380 --> 02:57:38.560
Okay, okay, then
I think we're done.
02:57:38.560 --> 02:57:42.793
Do any Commissioners wanna
say anything before we close?
02:57:45.997 --> 02:57:48.308
Commissioner Houck?
02:57:48.308 --> 02:57:50.540
I wanted to thank you,
Commissioner Rechtschaffen,
02:57:50.540 --> 02:57:53.720
for arranging for this En
Banc and this discussion.
02:57:53.720 --> 02:57:55.230
I think is a really good start
02:57:55.230 --> 02:57:57.470
and I'm looking forward
to further discussion
02:57:57.470 --> 02:58:00.860
and hopefully having another En Banc
02:58:00.860 --> 02:58:03.290
with our sister agencies on this topic.
02:58:03.290 --> 02:58:06.133
So thank you for putting this together.
02:58:11.330 --> 02:58:14.590
Commissioner Guzman
Aceves or Commissioner Shiroma?
02:58:15.620 --> 02:58:17.590
Okay, well, I wanna
thank everyone again,
02:58:17.590 --> 02:58:20.240
and especially a very large thank you
02:58:20.240 --> 02:58:24.100
to Josh Huneycutt and
the Energy Division staff
02:58:24.100 --> 02:58:25.500
for putting this together
02:58:25.500 --> 02:58:28.320
and for our colleague
Hannon Rasool for speaking
02:58:28.320 --> 02:58:29.760
and spending so much time with us
02:58:29.760 --> 02:58:32.730
to enlighten us on the CEC's efforts.
02:58:32.730 --> 02:58:34.713
With that, we're adjourned.