WEBVTT

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All right. Good morning

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I'm gonna call to order. I'm
gonna call to order docket

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52321. This is the
ERCOT Subchapter M case

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M is in money. Lots of
money. This a pre hearing

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conference being held on
August 23, 2021. My name

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is Hunter Burkholder. Let me
begin by taking appearances,

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and let's start with ERCOT please.
Good morning. Your

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honor. Ron Moss and Elliott
Clark on behalf of ERCOT. And

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I'll just, rather than,
I'll just call folks out.

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TAIEC. Good morning your
honor, Katie Coleman, Michael

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Macmillan and John Harvard for TAEIC

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Just Energy and associated
companies. Good morning

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your honor. Kathy Webking
and Stephanie Cover for Just

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Energy.

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NRG

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Good morning. Your honor.
Andrea Stover, Christina Rollins

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Patrick Leahy and London
Low for NRG. City of Garland.

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D. C. Energy

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City of Austin. Good morning your
honor. Thomas Mercado on behalf of

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City of Austin.

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Coalition of Competitive
Reps. Good morning. Your honor

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(indistinct) Coalition
of Competitive Reps.

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L. C. R. A. Lee Sebastian
and Emily Jolly for LCRA

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Aggregate Renewables.

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Excelon. Good morning.
Your honor. Megan Brookes

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for Excelon.

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Shell.

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I don't know how you say
it, Jexa? Gexa Energy?

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Good morning. I'm Tracey
Davis here on behalf of Gexa.

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And is it Gexa? Okay, thank you.

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Energy Trading Institute. City of Denton

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Good morning. Your honor.
(indistinct) from the city.

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City of Georgetown. Your
honor, (indistinct) Barnes.

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City of Lubbock.

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Also here for Garland.
For who? Garland. Okay.

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BP Energy.

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E. D. F. Energy

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CitiGroup. Your honor did
you say EDF Energy Services?e

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Yes sir. James Guy.

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Citigroup. Texas Retail Energy?

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Luminant. Good morning, your
honor. Bill Moore and Melissa

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Lorber, Mike Ryan and Chris
Kirby for Luminant Energy

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Tenaska Power Services
and associated companies.

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Good morning, your honor. Barton
Ford and Tim Miller for Tenaska.

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Advanced Power Alliance

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Golden Spread. Yes, your honor.
Good morning, Todd Kimbrough.

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Here for Goldenspread.

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Texpo Power. Good morning
your honor, James Guy on behalf of

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Texpo Power.

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Saracen Energy West?

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Tara Foreign Power
Operating. Carrie Collier Brown

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and Matt Art for Tera Foreign.

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Calpine. Morning, Chris
Reader and Miguel Suazo

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from Blackwell for Calpine and
also Diana Woodman Hammett

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with Calpine (indistinct).
Rayburn country?
Good morning

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your honor. Emma Hand,
Justin Mirrorball and Grace Dixon

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for Raburn Country Electrical
Cooperative. East Texas Electric

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Co op. Good morning, your
honor. Jacob Lawler for East Texas

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Electric Cooperative.
OPA.

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Office of Public Utility Council?

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Ennel Trading North America.

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Gary Coleman Brown
and Matt Heart for Ennel.

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NG Resources and NG Energy Marketing.
Good

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morning, your honor.
Stephen Mack for NG.

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South Texas Electric co op.
Good morning your

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honor, Jennifer Littlefield
and Carlos Carrasco on

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behalf of South Texas Electric.
Morgan Stanley.

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Vital Inc.

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RWE Renewables America?
Texas Treasury Safekeeping Trust?

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Good morning your
honor. Whitney Blanton and

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Mike Rice on behalf of Texas Treasury.

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AEP Energy partners.

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Staff. Good morning your
honor. Eleanor D. Ambrosio

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and Floyd Walker for Commission staff.
And have I missed

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anybody who's here
and who I didn't call on?

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All right, thank you. All Good
morning. Welcome. Thanks

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for being here bright and early.

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I want to talk about
admission of exhibits. I don't

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think I have any objections.
I'm just gonna go through

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each set of exhibits. And
the only ones that I think

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that the deadline for objecting
has not passed are ERCOT

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rebuttal exhibits 8,
9, and 10. So, let's

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start with the ERCOT
exhibit. Is there any objection

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to ERCOT exhibits 1 through 10?

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They're all admitted.

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And I'm assuming you were
all offering him. I'm treating

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it as if you were all
offering them. NRG Energy

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Yes, sir. Jsut want to
clarify that there is an

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objection to the
(indistinct) the testimony.

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Okay, that's in 522. And
we'll get to that on the

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prehearing for five, I'm
aware of that and we'll get

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to that. All right. So,
if I didn't say at all of

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ERCOTs exhibits one
through 10 are admitted. NRG

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Energy inc has offered
NRG exhibits 1 and 2. Is

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there any objection to
either of those exhibits?

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They're all admitted.

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City of Austin has offered
1 and 2. Any objection

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to either of those? They're all admitted

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Calpine Corporation has offered
one through 8? Any objections?

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Your honor, not objecting
to my own exhibits. But

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I do want to point out
that our exhibit seven and 8

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are also duplicative of the
NRG exhibits. So you don't

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need to clutter the record with
duplicated exhibits, I'm happy to

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not submit.
That was seven and eight.
Yes, sir.

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Thank you. I have noticed that
on some others, so I encourage

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everybody to do the same
thing you've just done, that's

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helpful, thanks. We're
striking seven and 8 from

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Calpine and then so we
just have Calpine exhibits one

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through six. Any
objection? They're admitted?

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Rayburn Country has one
exhibit, testimony of Julie

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Carey. Any objection? It's admitted.

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Commission staff has
three exhibits. Is there

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any objection to any of
them? They are all admitted.

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Have I missed anybody's
exhibits in 52321?

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All right, that takes care
of that. Well, I don't think

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there's any pending motions.
Have I missed anything

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there? Anybody have any pending motion?

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Okay. I don't know if
this realistic or not. But

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is it possible that we could reach

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an agreement on waving
cross on any witnesses. And

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so what I'm gonna do is
just if you think you wish

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to cross examine the
witnesses, just raise your

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hand. That's fine. I'm just
trying to identify if there's

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any witnesses we can
release, and don't need to

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call at the hearing on the
merits, I'm assuming probably

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not for ERCOT, but
fingers crossed. Let's see.

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Do folks want to enter a
cross examine Mr Ogleman?

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Just raise your hand if so.
Okay, fair enough. Atkins. Raise

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your hand if anybody wants
to...? Wow. All right. So are

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we free to cut Mr. Atkins
loose and we've admitted

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his testimony and there's
no need for him to appear

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on the hearing on the merits?

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Yes, your honor. I'm just
going to point out the obvious

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is that he'll need to be here for 52322.

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We have just called
21, and that's what we're

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talking about right now.
So, as to 52321, Mr Atkins

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is done. And need not
appear unless you feel

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the need to call in for
rebuttal. But we will not

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present him. You need not
swear him in. You need not

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have him stand by his
direct testimony. It's admitted.

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The only question your
honor is do we know whether

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the Commissioners will
have questions of him?

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Well, keep him handy. Sean
Taylor. Okay, fair enough.

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NRG witness Bill Barnes.

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Same deal. We will not
plan on calling him for

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cross examination unless
the Commissioners may have

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a question for him.

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Okay.

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City of Austin. No witnesses.
Calpine, Steve Schlemmer.

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Same deal. No need to call
him unless the Commissioners

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have questions for him.

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Julie Carey for Raburn Country.

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We may have a shorter
hearing than I thought we were

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going to have. Same
deal. No need to hear from

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her unless the Commissioners
want to hear from her.

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And then Darrell Tietjen for staff.

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All right. Same deal. Have
I missed any witnesses?

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No witnesses that I'm
aware of your honor. But I do

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have, Sean Walsh for
ERCOT. I do have one issue

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that I wanted to present
for your consideration. We

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have Mr Ogleman and Mr
Taylor and I know that there

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I guess there's a little,
a few questions for them

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and maybe for the
Commissioners, there's no real easy

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demarcation between where
one of their testimony ends

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and the other begins, the
Treasury versus the the settlement.

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If you wish for them to
appear as a panel, we're happy

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for them to do so they
can field questions and punt

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questions to each other.
If you don't wish to that,

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that's okay too. But I think
it might be more helpful

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for the Commissioners if
they were able to hear them

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at the same time rather than
having them come up one

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at a time.

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Anybody want, does
anybody have a strong feeling?

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I'm happy to do that. Pronounce Mr.

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Ogleman.
It's Mr. Ogleman.

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It's my understanding, I
probably wrong too, but yes.

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And Mr Taylor.

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So I'm receptive to
that. If I forget, don't be

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shy about reminding me.
Thank you your honor.

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All right. So are all the
witnesses here in the

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room right now?
Ours are.
Okay. I think I'm just

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gonna swear in. I think
I'll just swear in everybody

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including those folks who
cross has been waived so

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that if the Commissioners
want to talk to them, they'll

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be, we'll be able to do that
properly. So, Mr Ogleman.

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I'm just going to ask
you each to stand up as I

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call your name. Thank you. Okay,
you know better than anybody.

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How do you pronounce
your name? Okay, thank

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you. Atkins. Good morning.
Thank you. Mr Taylor. Morning.

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Morning.

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And oh, I missed Mr Reisig before.

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Anybody wish to cross examine Mr Reisig.

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All right, well, you're
sort of kind of off the hook

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Mr Reisig, but I'm gonna
ask you to go ahead and stand

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up anyway, I'll swear you
in case the Commissioners

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need to hear from you. Mr
Barnes for NRG. Good morning.

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Mr Schlemmer. Good morning.

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Ms. Carey.

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Good morning. Mr Tietjen. Good morning.

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Raise your right hand, please.
Do you solemnly swear and

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affirm that the testimony
you've given in this proceeding

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will be the truth, the
whole truth and nothing but

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the truth. I do. Thank
you all, you may be seated.

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Let's see you have been
given the order of cross

00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:47.470
by ERCOT. Thanks for
putting that together, Mr Moss.

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So you'll know which order
will go in when that time

00:14:50.710 --> 00:14:57.200
comes. Time allotments. You
know, we're really crunched

00:14:57.210 --> 00:15:00.019
on both of these cases.
Although we may be less crunched

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on this particular case. I
don't know. I don't generally

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like doing time allotments
but I think it's unavoidable.

00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:11.590
So here's what I have come
up with. Ercot 2 1⁄2 hours.

00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:18.539
TIEC 15 minutes. OPUC,
30 minutes. Staff, 40 minutes.

00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:23.730
E-Tech, 10 minutes. EDF,
five minutes. Austin Energy,

00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:29.289
five minutes. Golden
Spread, 10, TexBo, five. NL

00:15:29.299 --> 00:15:36.690
and Terraform, 10. South
Texas, 10. L. C. R. A., 20. Tenaska

00:15:36.690 --> 00:15:45.769
15. Calpine, 30. Nrg, 30.
Excelon, 15. Luminant, 20. Rayburn

00:15:45.769 --> 00:15:51.169
Country, 45. And if anybody
else has anything to say,

00:15:51.169 --> 00:15:54.269
they get, that's everybody's
submitted time allotment,

00:15:54.269 --> 00:15:58.529
everybody else is five
minutes. Yes ma'am. Your honor

00:15:58.539 --> 00:16:02.330
for Raburn country.
After reviewing the rebuttal

00:16:02.330 --> 00:16:05.470
testimony that came in Friday,
we do not need 45 minutes.

00:16:06.539 --> 00:16:09.690
And in light of the waiver
of cross on Ms. Carey.

00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:14.490
I would only reserve maybe five
for redirect if the Commissioners

00:16:14.490 --> 00:16:18.049
have any questions?
Music to my ears. Thank you. Okay

00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:27.740
so we'll give you 10.

00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:31.549
All right. In 52321 is
anything else we need to talk

00:16:31.549 --> 00:16:35.200
about? Your honor, Ron
Moss for ERCOT. The only other

00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:39.750
thing was that you had
asked us, the applicants which

00:16:39.750 --> 00:16:43.110
is ERCOT, to put together
the information about who

00:16:43.110 --> 00:16:45.549
is entitled to review
confidential and highly sensitive

00:16:45.549 --> 00:16:49.830
protecting information.
Let me stop you. Is my

00:16:49.830 --> 00:16:52.669
memory...? I don't think there
is any confidential information

00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:57.929
in this case.
Well, there is not as of this time. If

00:16:57.929 --> 00:17:01.029
someone tried to offer
it and cross then it might

00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:04.339
be relevant at that time.
As you say, we don't think

00:17:04.339 --> 00:17:07.279
there is any at this time.
If anyone has any, then

00:17:07.289 --> 00:17:11.799
we need not go through this right now.
Does

00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:16.640
anybody have any?

00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:19.160
That's solves that.
Solves that problem. Thank you

00:17:20.339 --> 00:17:22.220
All right. Anything else
when you talk about in this

00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:24.740
case 21?

00:17:24.740 --> 00:17:26.769
We are adjourned. Thank
you very much. Give me just

00:17:26.769 --> 00:17:30.640
a minute. We'll start the second one.

00:17:30.664 --> 00:19:42.014
(indistinct chatter)

00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:45.119
Okay. Good morning
again I'll call to order docket

00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:49.559
52322. This is the ERCOT case involving

00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:53.539
Subchapter N as in Nancy.
This pre hearing conference is

00:19:53.549 --> 00:19:57.440
being held August 23,
2021. And again I'm Hunter

00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:00.609
Burkholder. As we did
before with the other case, I'll

00:20:00.609 --> 00:20:04.380
take appearances and I'll
start with ERCOT, please.

00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:09.630
Ron Moss and Elliott Clark on behalf of
ERCOT. TIEC. Good morning, your honot.

00:20:09.630 --> 00:20:12.430
Katie Coleman, Michael
Macmillan and John Hubbard

00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:17.660
for TIEC.
Just Energy and Associated companies.
Good morning

00:20:17.660 --> 00:20:22.839
your honor Kathy Webb and Stephanie
Coburn on behalf of Just Energy.

00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.890
NRG Energy. Morning your
honor. Andrea Starbrook, Christina

00:20:26.890 --> 00:20:30.440
Roland, Patrick Lake, and (indistinct)

00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:32.373
City of Garland. Good
morning, your honor,

00:20:32.385 --> 00:20:34.059
Reed Barnes for
the City of Garland.

00:20:34.539 --> 00:20:40.140
And Mr Barnes, you are also?

00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:43.109
City of Georgetown. City of
Denton. And the city of Lubbock.

00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:47.839
Thank you.

00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:52.740
D. C. Energy Texas.

00:20:52.740 --> 00:20:54.588
City of Austin. Good
morning, your honor.

00:20:54.600 --> 00:20:56.150
Thomas Mercado,
the city of Austin.

00:20:56.150 --> 00:21:01.369
Coalition of Competitive
Retail, the Competitive

00:21:01.369 --> 00:21:04.720
Reps. Good morning your
honor. Miguel (indistinct) for

00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:08.640
the Coalition of Competitive
Reps. Luminan. Good morning

00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:11.170
your honor. Bill Moore,
Melissa Lorber, Chris Kirby,

00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:13.859
and Mike Rife for Lumina.t
We're also appearing for

00:21:13.859 --> 00:21:17.740
the Texas Load Serving Entities.

00:21:17.740 --> 00:21:27.019
LCRA? Good morning
your honor. Emily Jolly

00:21:27.029 --> 00:21:31.980
and Lee Sebastian for LCR. Excelon? Good

00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:34.240
morning your honor. Megan
Griffiths and Linda Font

00:21:34.250 --> 00:21:38.769
for Excelon and Constellation
New Energ. Avengrid?

00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:45.539
Shell energy?

00:21:45.539 --> 00:21:50.380
Gexa? Morning, your honor.
Tracey Davis on behalf of

00:21:50.380 --> 00:21:57.339
Gexa Energy LP.
Energy trading Institute?

00:21:57.339 --> 00:22:01.339
Bp Energy?

00:22:01.339 --> 00:22:04.730
EDF Energy Services?
Good morning again,

00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:11.940
James Guy on behalf
of EDF. City of Seguin.

00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:16.000
Ap gas and Electric? Good
morning your honor. Kathy

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.759
Webb King for AP Gas and
Electric. Also for Southern Federal

00:22:19.769 --> 00:22:22.339
Power.

00:22:22.339 --> 00:22:32.240
Thank you Texas Retail Energy.

00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:36.359
Tanaska and associated
companies. Good morning your

00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:40.430
honor, Martin Ford and Tim
Mueller for Tanaska Power

00:22:40.430 --> 00:22:43.670
Services Co, not to Tanaska
generally, just Tanaska

00:22:43.670 --> 00:22:49.140
Power Services Co. Thank you. Citigroup.

00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:53.099
Golden Spread. Morning,
your honor. Todd Kimbrough

00:22:53.099 --> 00:22:56.440
here for Golden Spread.

00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.809
TexBo power. Good morning,
James guy on behalf of TexBo.

00:23:00.809 --> 00:23:06.700
Calpine? First reader, in
Valparaiso, with Josh Blackwell

00:23:06.710 --> 00:23:09.960
for Calpine and also joined
by Diana Woodman Hammett

00:23:09.970 --> 00:23:12.859
and for tomorrow, Catherine
Piper, both with CalPine.

00:23:13.339 --> 00:23:18.990
Thank you. 174 Power Global
Retail Texas. Morning, your honor.

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:22.029
Jennifer Littlefield and
Carlos Carrasco on behalf

00:23:22.029 --> 00:23:25.240
of 174 Power.

00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:28.730
We are also here on behalf
of South Texas Electric

00:23:28.730 --> 00:23:32.240
Cooperative.

00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:34.740
Thank you.

00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:37.460
You said you said South
Texas Electric co op, right?

00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:43.039
Yes. Okay.

00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:46.630
Rayburn Country Electric Co Op.
Good morning your honor.

00:23:46.859 --> 00:23:51.420
Emma Hand, Justin Miracle
and Grace Dixon on behalf

00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:54.859
of Rayburn Country Electric Cooperative.
East Texas

00:23:54.869 --> 00:23:58.359
Electric Co op?
Good morning your honor. Jacob Roller

00:23:58.369 --> 00:24:02.140
on behalf of East Texas
Cooperative. Office of Public

00:24:02.140 --> 00:24:05.460
Utility council?

00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:09.630
NG Resources and NGEnergy marketing.

00:24:09.630 --> 00:24:13.140
Good morning your honor. (indistinct)

00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:17.039
Morgan Stanley Capital?

00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:20.230
Vital Inc?

00:24:20.230 --> 00:24:23.640
AEP Energy Partners?

00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.460
Commission staff? Good
morning your honor. Eleanor D

00:24:26.460 --> 00:24:29.269
Ambrosio and Floyd Walker
on behalf of Commission staff.

00:24:32.140 --> 00:24:35.450
Have I missed anybody?
I'm sorry I don't think I heard you.

00:24:35.450 --> 00:24:37.900
Adam Goodman, Tucker
Pirlo with the office of

00:24:37.910 --> 00:24:41.640
Public Utility Counsel.

00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:43.940
Thank you.

00:24:43.940 --> 00:24:47.140
Anybody else?

00:24:47.140 --> 00:24:50.039
Welcome to you all.

00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:55.690
I have a pending motion from the TXULSEs

00:24:55.690 --> 00:25:01.369
and Luminant. A very
reasonable request. That

00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:05.839
unfortunately we can't
honor. The request was to see

00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:08.759
if we could conditionally
start at 9:00 tomorrow morning

00:25:08.769 --> 00:25:14.730
if 21 finishes early.
Could we start 22 early?

00:25:14.740 --> 00:25:18.750
And after talking with
Commission counsel.

00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:22.240
This is an open meeting
with Commission. It's posted

00:25:22.250 --> 00:25:25.339
for a certain time and we
can't change that time. So

00:25:25.339 --> 00:25:28.450
unfortunately we can't, we're
gonna start at 1:00 tomorrow.

00:25:28.450 --> 00:25:31.170
We can't deviate
from that so that motion

00:25:31.640 --> 00:25:36.789
is denied.
Understood. Thank you.
Are there,

00:25:36.789 --> 00:25:39.460
I know I have a discovery
motion. I'll get to that

00:25:39.470 --> 00:25:44.660
Evidentiary motion.
I'll get to that when we

00:25:44.670 --> 00:25:47.309
deal with the exhibits. Is
there any other pending

00:25:47.309 --> 00:25:49.849
motion? I don't think there
is. But have I missed anything?

00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.750
All right, let's go to the
admission of exhibits. ERCOT

00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:01.559
has offered one through
nine. Is there any objection

00:26:01.569 --> 00:26:05.349
to those? Any of those
exhibits? They're all admitted.

00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:14.140
TIEC Exhibit one. Any objection.?

00:26:14.140 --> 00:26:16.640
Let's admit it.

00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:23.730
Just Energy exhibits 1 through
4, 5A, 5B, annd 6 through

00:26:23.730 --> 00:26:26.940
7. Any objections?

00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:31.420
They're all admitted.

00:26:31.420 --> 00:26:36.789
NRG energy INC. has offered NRG one and

00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:42.910
2. Is there any objection?
They're admitted

00:26:42.910 --> 00:26:47.140
City of Austin 1. Any objection?

00:26:47.140 --> 00:26:50.940
It's admitted.

00:26:50.940 --> 00:26:57.009
Alright. TXU, LSEs, and
Luminant Energy. I have

00:26:57.009 --> 00:26:59.420
read the objections. I've
read the responses. I've

00:26:59.420 --> 00:27:02.819
read the case law. I've reac
the SOAH orders. I've given

00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:05.589
a great deal of thought
and I'm going to sustain the

00:27:05.589 --> 00:27:11.250
objections to the, all of the
objections to the testimony

00:27:11.250 --> 00:27:16.750
of Ms. Fraiser because the
exhibits are only referenced

00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:20.339
in the portions of Ms.
Frasier's testimony that I'm

00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:24.410
striking. I'm also striking
the exhibits and I'm striking

00:27:24.410 --> 00:27:28.740
the testimony of Mr, I
guess it's Dr Spindler. I

00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:33.039
think all that reads as a
legal brief. It's not evidence,

00:27:33.049 --> 00:27:36.910
it's the discussion of law.
And so I'm sustaining the

00:27:36.910 --> 00:27:44.670
objection, so with that
Exhibit 3 is not admitted.

00:27:45.339 --> 00:27:52.539
Beyond, well also I
notice that exhibit 4 is

00:27:52.539 --> 00:27:57.210
a duplicate of staff exhibit
4. I'm sorry, where is

00:27:57.220 --> 00:28:02.920
Luminant Energy's counsel.
I'm sorry. Are you okay

00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:06.190
with withdrawing 4? I'm
fine. Yeah, we can use 4, we'll

00:28:06.190 --> 00:28:08.759
just use staff's 4.
Okay, so we'll do that. We're

00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:13.759
not gonna admit 4--
Your honor, may we talk about the Amanda

00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:16.440
Fraser exhibit--
Sure
--and Professor Spindler just

00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:19.529
momentarily. Understand
your ruling, we would like to

00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:22.690
make an offer of proof. We
can do that either, we can

00:28:22.700 --> 00:28:26.630
do that today for Professor
Spindler because that testimony

00:28:26.630 --> 00:28:30.740
stands on its own. For
Amanda Frazier's testimony since

00:28:30.740 --> 00:28:33.150
your honor is striking
pieces of it, we will need to

00:28:33.150 --> 00:28:35.670
make an offer of proof for
those pieces that are stricken.

00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:38.259
We can do that tomorrow
before the hearing starts so

00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:42.710
that we have that exhibit
in front of you. I can't

00:28:42.710 --> 00:28:44.779
do that today because I don't
have that exhibit prepared.

00:28:45.029 --> 00:28:50.279
That's fine. I will, just do
it. I recommend you work

00:28:50.289 --> 00:28:52.880
with court reporter to
do that at a time you find

00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:59.170
convenient during the break.
Thank you. 
So is

00:28:59.170 --> 00:29:02.089
there any objection to the
admission of Ms. Frazier's

00:29:02.099 --> 00:29:06.359
testimony? Which is one
as modified by my ruling?

00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:15.240
It's admitted.

00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:21.720
Any objection to 2? It's
admitted. And so I'm sure

00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:24.180
you're aware of it.
You'll have to have ready

00:29:24.190 --> 00:29:30.079
a modified exhibit that conforms
my ruling by the beginning

00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:35.240
of the hearing tomorrow. Yes, correct.

00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:38.690
All right. Coalition of
Competitive Reps, exhibit one.

00:29:38.690 --> 00:29:41.039
Any objection?

00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:43.740
It's admitted.

00:29:43.740 --> 00:29:47.690
LCRA and LCRA WSC Energies exhibit

00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:55.099
one. Any objection? It's
admitted. Excelon Generation

00:29:55.099 --> 00:29:59.859
Companies exhibits one
and 2. Any objection? They're

00:29:59.859 --> 00:30:02.039
admitted?

00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.140


00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:09.000
Calpine has offered one through eight.
Your honor,

00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:11.750
similarly to the last docket,
our exhibits five through

00:30:11.750 --> 00:30:16.430
8 are duplicative of the
NRG exhibit two. So we would

00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:21.079
withdraw our proferred
exhibits fight through 8. Thank

00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:23.640
you for that.

00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.960
So, is there any objection
to Calpine one through four?

00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:32.240
They are admitted.

00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:37.549
Rayburn Country 1 and 2.
Any objection? They're admitted

00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:44.849
Commission staff exhibits
one through 5. Any objections?

00:30:46.539 --> 00:30:50.150
They're all admitted. Have I
missed anybody's evidence?

00:30:51.740 --> 00:30:59.640
Okay, that takes care of that.

00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:04.180
Let's do our same
exercise on waiver of cross.

00:31:07.940 --> 00:31:14.640
Do folks want to cross Mr Ogleman?

00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:21.839
I see some hands. Yes.
Atkins? Okay. Taylor?

00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:28.990
Okay. That's it for them.
Your honor, would

00:31:28.990 --> 00:31:31.750
it be acceptable for you if
we also brought Mr. Ogleman

00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:34.980
and Mr Taylor up at the
same time in this docket

00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:37.160
as well? I think it's going
to be the same issue. Maybe

00:31:37.170 --> 00:31:40.579
not more.
Okay, that's fine with me. And just help

00:31:40.579 --> 00:31:43.750
me remember that when the time comes.
Thank you.
Make

00:31:43.750 --> 00:31:48.539
a note of that.

00:31:48.539 --> 00:31:55.670
That was Taylor, right?
Ogleman and Taylor. Yes

00:31:55.670 --> 00:32:03.440
your honor.

00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:07.240
All right. Does anybody
wish to cross examine the

00:32:07.250 --> 00:32:11.740
TIECs witness, Charles Griffey?

00:32:11.740 --> 00:32:14.039
All right..

00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:20.440
Just Energies witness. Michael Carter?

00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:24.740
Okay, thank you.

00:32:24.740 --> 00:32:32.839
NRG Energy's witness Bill Barnes.

00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:38.640
Thank you.

00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:43.670
TXU LSE's and Luminet
witness Miss Frasier.

00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:50.140
Thank you. And witness Matthew Parker.

00:32:50.140 --> 00:32:52.940
Thank you.

00:32:52.940 --> 00:33:00.549
Popular. Alright. Coalition
of Competitive Reps

00:33:00.549 --> 00:33:06.420
Witness, Vanished Priestly.
Thanks you. We're not having

00:33:06.420 --> 00:33:11.240
the luck in this case.

00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:16.839
Excelon Generation's
witness, William Berg. Thank

00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:22.000
you. And Laurie Simpson? Thank you.
Your honor. We would

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.759
ask for the same request
that ERCOT did, if we could put

00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:27.460
our witnesses up on
a panel if that's okay.

00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:31.420
I'm sorry. And you're Excelon?
That's correct.
Okay

00:33:31.430 --> 00:33:35.690
Berg and Simpson together.
Anybody have a problem with

00:33:35.690 --> 00:33:39.039
that?

00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:55.740
We'll do that. Help me remember please.

00:33:55.740 --> 00:34:00.339


00:34:00.339 --> 00:34:08.860
For Calpine, Steve Schlammer.
Thank you. For Raburn Country

00:34:08.869 --> 00:34:13.539
Julie Carey.

00:34:13.539 --> 00:34:21.230
We found one. So same
deal as before. Unless

00:34:21.230 --> 00:34:23.909
Commission has questions
of Miss Carey is no need

00:34:23.909 --> 00:34:28.860
to present her. David Braun
also for Rayburn Country.

00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:32.639
Thank you.

00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:38.440
For Commission staff, Darryl Tietjen.

00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:45.039
Wow. All right then. Same
deal for for Mr. Tietjen.

00:34:45.050 --> 00:34:48.590
He need only appear if the
Commission has questions

00:34:48.590 --> 00:34:51.840
for him.

00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:55.150
oh and here in this case,
we also have her staff Carrie

00:34:55.150 --> 00:34:58.070
Bivens.

00:34:58.070 --> 00:35:05.159
Rebecca Zerwas. Thank
you. All right. Well that

00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:09.539
wasn't as good an exercise as before.

00:35:09.539 --> 00:35:12.739
Okay.

00:35:12.739 --> 00:35:15.539
Let me go ahead and swear those
witnessesin. Yes, ma'am? Your

00:35:15.539 --> 00:35:19.489
honor. Just for clarity of
record and process. ERCOT

00:35:19.489 --> 00:35:21.920
has rebuttal, the same
witnesses are on direct

00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:25.199
and rebuttal. Are we
planning to do direct first and

00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:29.260
then come back to rebuttal at the end? 
We're

00:35:29.269 --> 00:35:32.150
happy to put our witnesses
up just once. If that's

00:35:32.150 --> 00:35:35.699
acceptable to others. If you
want to put them up twice,

00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:38.139
we'll put them up twice.

00:35:38.139 --> 00:35:40.739
You have a preference Ms. Webbking?
I would go with the

00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:44.739
will of the group. 
I'm just so worried about time that

00:35:44.750 --> 00:35:47.530
I just as soon get it
all done in one go. If

00:35:47.539 --> 00:35:51.969
we can. And if that makes
any anybody uncomfortable,

00:35:51.969 --> 00:35:55.219
speak now or forever
hold your peace. Okay?

00:35:55.230 --> 00:35:57.809
We'll do that. We'll just
put them up for all. We'll

00:35:57.809 --> 00:36:00.309
put them up for direct and
rebuttal at the same time. Yes,

00:36:00.929 --> 00:36:04.250
your honor for the TXU
LSEs, Bill Moore. In the interest

00:36:04.250 --> 00:36:06.820
of time. If you want to put
our two witnesses up together

00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:09.630
as a panel, we're fine with that.
I'm gonna stop taking

00:36:09.630 --> 00:36:14.389
notes. I'm receptive to the
idea. So as a party comea

00:36:14.389 --> 00:36:16.619
forward. If they want to
do it that way. I'm receptive

00:36:16.630 --> 00:36:19.630
to it. Just raise it at
that time. We'll handle it

00:36:19.630 --> 00:36:22.440
that way. Now I'm gonna
swear in all the witnesses

00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:25.889
So if you'd stand up as I
call your name please. Mr

00:36:25.889 --> 00:36:31.130
Ogleman. Mr Atkins.

00:36:31.130 --> 00:36:37.030
Mr Taylor

00:36:37.030 --> 00:36:40.230
Mr Griffey.
Your honor, Mr Griffey is coming in from

00:36:40.230 --> 00:36:45.210
out of town, he won't be here
until tomorrow. Have a seat

00:36:45.219 --> 00:36:47.579
for now. Thank you. Do we
have everybody here for this

00:36:47.579 --> 00:36:51.360
case? We might not have
everybody. If we don't.

00:36:51.369 --> 00:36:54.730
Your honor, our witness
supposedly is in the building according

00:36:54.730 --> 00:36:56.949
to his last text but he's
on his way up. So he's not

00:36:56.960 --> 00:36:59.960
in the courtroom, but--
All right. I'm not gonna do it

00:36:59.969 --> 00:37:06.289
piecemeal. So we'll just
handle that tomorrow.

00:37:06.289 --> 00:37:14.239
Time allotments. Here
you go. ERCOT, 2.5 hours.

00:37:15.030 --> 00:37:20.630
TIEC, 10 minutes.
Staff, two hours. EDF, 10

00:37:20.630 --> 00:37:25.190
minutes. Austin Energy, five
minutes. Golden spread, 10

00:37:25.190 --> 00:37:32.829
minutes. TexBo, 10. Stack,
10. LCRA, 10. Tamaska,

00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:42.010
10. Calpine, 20. NRG, 20.
Excelon, 20. Just Energy

00:37:42.019 --> 00:37:44.230
30.

00:37:44.230 --> 00:37:54.650
NG, 10. 174 Power, 10.
Shell, 10. Coalition Competitive

00:37:54.650 --> 00:38:00.920
Reps, 10. The TXEs
and Luminant, 10. Cities

00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:07.019
of Garland, Georgetown,
Lubbock, 10.Rayburn Country,

00:38:07.019 --> 00:38:16.420
30 Everybody else? 35 minutes.

00:38:16.420 --> 00:38:22.250
You have the order of testimony
for this case as well? Okay.

00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:25.059
Is there anything else we
need to talk about on 52?

00:38:25.070 --> 00:38:27.489
Yes ma'am? Could you
please clarify since we're

00:38:27.489 --> 00:38:30.210
doing ERCOTs witnesses
on direct and rebuttal if

00:38:30.210 --> 00:38:32.690
we're taking them up first
or we're taking them up

00:38:32.699 --> 00:38:37.579
after cross examination? (indistinct)
Just the order. I don't like

00:38:37.579 --> 00:38:40.030
this mask thing. I can't
hear you. Sorry. Could you

00:38:40.030 --> 00:38:43.059
please clarify since we've
got ERCOT going up on direct

00:38:43.059 --> 00:38:46.079
and rebuttal, If we're taking
them first as the applicant

00:38:46.090 --> 00:38:48.510
or if we're putting them last,
maybe Ron could speak to that.

00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:52.559
Well, my intention was
first. That's what we assumed

00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:56.280
as well, your honor.
Thank you.
Your honor. One question.

00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:59.539
Emily Jolly for LCRA. A
number of parties in their requests

00:38:59.550 --> 00:39:02.139
for time allotments indicated
that they might reserve

00:39:02.139 --> 00:39:04.500
or pass their time to
other parties. Is your honor

00:39:04.510 --> 00:39:08.050
open to that? Absolutely.

00:39:08.050 --> 00:39:12.280
And I had a question about
the order as well. We have

00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:15.719
an order of cross
examination. Is that likewise the

00:39:15.730 --> 00:39:18.519
order in which witnesses
will be called up assuming

00:39:18.519 --> 00:39:24.119
that we deal with the ERCOT issue?
Yes.

00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:26.559
I like most of the parties
that are planning to do

00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:28.920
cross notice that I have
a conflict Wednesday until

00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:31.190
11. And I was going to ask
you, we could not schedule

00:39:31.190 --> 00:39:34.250
Mr Griffin just during that
couple hours if possible.

00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:38.320
From when to when?
Just until 11 in the morning.

00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:40.710
Oh you're fine because
we're not gonna start till one

00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:43.300
tomorrow.
No, on Wednesday.
On Wednesday. I'm sorry

00:39:43.309 --> 00:39:45.619
So we could take him either
tomorrow afternoon or after

00:39:45.619 --> 00:39:50.980
11 on Wednesday.
Sorry who are you representing?
TIEC.

00:39:50.989 --> 00:39:58.610
Right. just you'll
have to remind me. I'm

00:39:58.610 --> 00:40:03.010
happy to accommodate that. Thank you.

00:40:03.010 --> 00:40:06.400
Anything else?
Your honor. One other thing. Some of

00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:09.119
the exhibits that were
offered into evidence, admitted

00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:13.199
into evidence have, at the
time the discovery responses

00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:15.829
were filed, those were
either confidential or highly

00:40:15.829 --> 00:40:20.920
sensitive protected material.
At this time the information

00:40:20.929 --> 00:40:23.469
has lost its protective
information status under the

00:40:23.469 --> 00:40:25.650
ERCOT protocols. And
so we no longer consider

00:40:25.650 --> 00:40:28.880
those to be confidential or
highly protective. Therefore

00:40:28.889 --> 00:40:31.909
from our perspective, it's
not necessary for you to

00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:34.929
address this issue that
I raised earlier. If other

00:40:34.929 --> 00:40:37.309
people intend to offer other
documents today that are

00:40:37.309 --> 00:40:40.800
highly sensitive or
confidential, then I'll go through

00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:42.940
this document, explain the
issues that we have with it.

00:40:43.809 --> 00:40:50.110
I believe we admitted one and
only one exhibit that is identified

00:40:50.110 --> 00:40:55.809
as highly sensitive.
Exhibit 7 from Just Energy.

00:40:55.809 --> 00:40:58.210
I may be wrong.

00:40:58.210 --> 00:41:05.449
So who's counsel for
Just Energy? Katherine

00:41:05.449 --> 00:41:09.510
Webbking, your honor.

00:41:09.510 --> 00:41:12.550
I am happy to circulate a
public copy of that marked

00:41:12.550 --> 00:41:16.829
as in public exhibit.
That'd be great

00:41:18.710 --> 00:41:23.840
Thanks for that. Thank you.
Okay. Anything else? Thank

00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:27.260
you. All were adjourned
will start in about 15 minutes

00:41:30.210 --> 00:41:35.440